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Autism and Invention Are Connected

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Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#101

Post by pikelet »

novok wrote: post #32
PlugTunin wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. The author of that article, Baron-Cohen, has previously written (debated?) about whether HFA/AS is a disability OR a difference. Speaking for myself, and many who identify as having Asperger's -- and your son, from what it sounds like (who sounds really cool!) -- it is indeed a difference , and by no means a disability.

Low end ASD can make dating really hard for men, and their often inflexible nature makes them hard people to live with at times. I think from that perspective alone it's a disability.

For a large part of my life I was somewhat jealous of my brother, who had Asperger's, for his natural wit, and his incredible creativity (in art, in music, in writing). So I can't possibly see it as a disability. It certainly makes some aspects of life more difficult for him, but my experience is that he generally figures things out in the end, even if it's many years later than his peers. On the other hand, some things 'normal' people struggle with come very easily to him. Really, I think 'difference' is the best way to put it. Some 'good', some 'bad', but I think they play a very important role in society.

As an aside, I'm really disappointed it's all under the umbrella term of ASD now. People are generally more aware of the differences now but no thanks to that.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#102

Post by zepto »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #85
PlugTunin wrote: post #21

Interesting read. Minor point of clarification: It's noted that many autistic folks struggle with empathy. There are two dimensions to empathy, cognitive and affective . Cognitive is more about perspective taking, or reading the feelings / intentions of others, while affective is the ability to share/understand the emotions of others, and respond appropriately. Putting aside that the two may overlap, it's often the c…

I'm curious if the supposed Theory of Mind impairments only apply when Autistic people theorize about Neurotypical minds, which are different from their own. My guess is that when theorizing about another Autistic person mind, which is similar to their own, they might actually do quite well because they have their own mind to use as a base to work from, just like Neurotypical people have their own mind to use as a ba…

This is called ‘the double empathy problem’.

There has been an increasing amount of study on it, and research supports your guesses.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#103

Post by pikelet »

bryanmgreen wrote: post #93
PlugTunin wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should be clear in stating that my life hasn't been a bowl of cherries. Asperger's is at the core of a looooong list of problems I've had with interpersonal relationships, whether it's family, friends, co-workers, roommates, etc. I'm sort of intolerant of being treated unjustly or being taken advantage of, and I react rather nastily to those who cross me. (And before you judge me, know that people with Asperger's h…

Disabled against the context of "normality". You can function obviously, but not as society expects you to or even in way they can understand. For that reason, you receive the label of "has a disability". The term "disability" is unfortunately as much a reflection of societal norms as it is genuine medical diagnosis.

Exactly. Luckily society seems to be slowly becoming more accommodating and understanding, but there is a long was to go before society truly understands how to value the contribution of people who are different. Seeing 'disability' in this way, it can even apply to traits like introversion (depending on the culture you live in).

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#104

Post by cookiengineer »

PlugTunin wrote: post #21

Interesting read. Minor point of clarification: It's noted that many autistic folks struggle with empathy. There are two dimensions to empathy, cognitive and affective . Cognitive is more about perspective taking, or reading the feelings / intentions of others, while affective is the ability to share/understand the emotions of others, and respond appropriately. Putting aside that the two may overlap, it's often the c…

I was reading this comment dozens of times while trying to understand its implications.

When reflecting on myself, I think I have problems with both cognitive and affective empathy. From my perspective it's hard to differ between those because I think a lot of what makes the "reactibility of a person" is intertwined and feels like a really complicated maze that needs exploration to find a potential solution.

The problem is though, that when you try to explore "this maze" in a situation; usually people get very upset for me behaving not in an appropriate manner. So I guess that it's very hard to figure out when these exploration parts are appropriate; and when they are not.

> leaving them susceptible to being tricked, or unable to pick up on, say, whether or not a person is interested in dating them.

A lot of times in life people tend to exploit your character; and even when you realize it's just friendship or a distanciated acquaintance relationship the hard part is still saying no when people ask for your help. Oh so often you help them; and when you need their help once for a little thing like helping you to move something around - years later - they're suddenly not your friends anymore.

I often think that what keeps my sanity intact is "keeping a score" subconsciously... how often I helped or made space for somebody; and how often they did. While this is the jerk part to other people; it's a necessity for me to not get exploited by others again.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#106

Post by aussieguy1234 »

zepto wrote: post #102
aussieguy1234 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if the supposed Theory of Mind impairments only apply when Autistic people theorize about Neurotypical minds, which are different from their own. My guess is that when theorizing about another Autistic person mind, which is similar to their own, they might actually do quite well because they have their own mind to use as a base to work from, just like Neurotypical people have their own mind to use as a ba…

This is called ‘the double empathy problem’. There has been an increasing amount of study on it, and research supports your guesses.

Just googled it, looks like this article has a good overview: https://network.autism.org.uk/knowledge/insight-opinion/doub...

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#107

Post by godelski »

grugagag wrote: post #100
godelski wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big problem of this is that we don't actually represent these people and the way we talk about mental illnesses and disabilities is just strange. Like a lot of people were confused by Robin Williams and Chris Farley, but I don't think anyone that's ever suffered from depression was surprised at all. We think of depression as sadness instead of the existential emptiness or mundane that many experience. Autis…

This is on the one hand a good point but on the other it is a good example of exactly what you’re pointing out. Your implicit dismissal of the idea that there is a spectrum invalidates the ones with the milder form, the highly functionals who feel extremely liberated when a diagnosys is made and why they want to share it that with the world.

> Your implicit dismissal of the idea that there is a spectrum

This was really not my intent. Would you care letting me know where I implicitly said that so I cannot make the same error in the future?

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#109

Post by thedevil »

worker767424 wrote: post #71
amelius wrote: post #27

Please don't take this the wrong way, but there is a 3-to-1 male-to-female ratio in autism prevalence. Does this mean that males invent more things than females? Or is the percentage of people with autism too small to have an effect here? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28545751/

My unresearched pet theory is that, at least in mammals, males are risk-takers, do stupid things, and are where the genome gets to try new things, because they're more "disposable" when propagating a species.

It's not just mammals and I wouldn't frame it as them being disposable when propagating the species.

There's a bigger payout at the right tail of the distribution for male genes. Male genes can sometimes have 1000 offspring. Female genes generally can't. Male genes are generally more likely to have 0 offspring. So male genes have less to lose and more to gain by taking risks, behavioral and biological risks. See also male variance hypothesis.

This varies by species and the pattern is likely stronger in more polygynous species and weaker in more monogamous species. See also sexual dimorphism. Human males take more behavioral risks on average and have higher mortality rates throughout life (not only from behavior).

I warn you though, this is a controversial subject because of some of its possible implications.

Also I should disclose that I'm not an expert, just a layperson interested in this and some related topics.

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