Autism and Invention Are Connected • Hacker News Board

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#21

Post by PlugTunin » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:33 PM UTC

Interesting read.

Minor point of clarification: It's noted that many autistic folks struggle with empathy. There are two dimensions to empathy, cognitive and affective. Cognitive is more about perspective taking, or reading the feelings / intentions of others, while affective is the ability to share/understand the emotions of others, and respond appropriately.

Putting aside that the two may overlap, it's often the cognitive aspect that challenges the autistic, leaving them susceptible to being tricked, or unable to pick up on, say, whether or not a person is interested in dating them.

I point this out b/c it's important that this deficiency isn't construed as simply a predisposition to acting like an unfeeling jerk. There are many layers to empathy, as well as the related concept of Theory of Mind.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#22

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:33 PM UTC

gime_tree_fiddy wrote: post #6

xyst wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some services that allow you to subscribe to a single service for ~$10 per month and you get access to a wide range of national papers like the WSJ.

What is this service you are talking about?

My ISP has/used to have one, and it was even given for free for some months. I would have preferred that they didn't, as this can easily turn into a conflict of interest.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#23

Post by ajarmst » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

Note that the author is reporting primarily on his own research, not all of which is uncontroversial. Cohen's assertions have mostly been anecdote-based, without a lot of support from formal studies, even to quantifying what this "Invention" faculty even is.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#24

Post by username90 » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

I wonder how much this is autism and how much it is people with low trait agreeableness being diagnosed with autism for being "bad with people". Refusing to do rituals without a good explanation makes people think you are autistic, but it could just as well be that they are disagreeable by nature and don't do things just because people tell them to. And refusing to do things the way everyone else does them obviously helps you find new ways to do things.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#25

Post by PlugTunin » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #17

ksm1717 wrote: post #14

The first sentence rubs me the wrong way. The claim that you wouldn’t expect autism to be coupled with invention because it is a disability only makes sense because of the semantics of labeling autism necessarily a disability. Not to mention the slight to disabilities as a whole

One of my sons has Asperger syndrome. He's brilliant, happy, and has one of the sharpest senses of humor I've encountered. I'm not sure if his Asperger syndrome is a net positive or negative in his life, but it's certainly not a straight-up disability. Perhaps the author was thinking about a strong form of Autism that pretty unequivocally makes life difficult?

Good point. The author of that article, Baron-Cohen, has previously written (debated?) about whether HFA/AS is a disability OR a difference. Speaking for myself, and many who identify as having Asperger's -- and your son, from what it sounds like (who sounds really cool!) -- it is indeed a difference, and by no means a disability.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#26

Post by cbozeman » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

programmerslave wrote: post #12

Mental disabilities are mostly adaptations that have huge upside. Technology is exacerbating that upside. You can’t have a majority autistic society, but you want some of them around

> Mental disabilities are mostly adaptations that have huge upside.

There is extremely scant evidence to support this claim, and conversely, an enormous amount of evidence to disprove it.

The first part is questionable in its very premise. Mental disabilities as an adaptation? By what metric do you measure this? And having huge upsides? There aren't many upsides to someone being born severely mentally retarded. There aren't really even many upsides to severe autism.

For every "House, M.D." you're thinking of, there's another totally non-functional person who requires an enormous amount of caretaking.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#27

Post by amelius » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

Please don't take this the wrong way, but there is a 3-to-1 male-to-female ratio in autism prevalence. Does this mean that males invent more things than females? Or is the percentage of people with autism too small to have an effect here?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28545751/

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#28

Post by layoutIfNeeded » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:46 PM UTC

programmerslave wrote: post #12

Mental disabilities are mostly adaptations that have huge upside. Technology is exacerbating that upside. You can’t have a majority autistic society, but you want some of them around

You could believe this if you have only ever saw mental disabilities in movies. Pay a visit to an actual mental ward and I can guarantee it will change your perspective.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#29

Post by petercooper » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:46 PM UTC

PlugTunin wrote: post #21

Interesting read. Minor point of clarification: It's noted that many autistic folks struggle with empathy. There are two dimensions to empathy, cognitive and affective . Cognitive is more about perspective taking, or reading the feelings / intentions of others, while affective is the ability to share/understand the emotions of others, and respond appropriately. Putting aside that the two may overlap, it's often the c…

Sympathy vs empathy also adds another layer. If a certain event would cause me pain and that event happens to you, I can feel for you because I sympathize with your pain. This can easily pass as empathy. But if that same event would not cause me pain but it causes you pain, this can be difficult to resolve as it involves theory of mind which is often weak or missing in those with ASD.

Re: Autism and Invention Are Connected

#30

Post by wwright » Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 10:47 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #27

Please don't take this the wrong way, but there is a 3-to-1 male-to-female ratio in autism prevalence. Does this mean that males invent more things than females? Or is the percentage of people with autism too small to have an effect here? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28545751/

I know that there is at least some speculation that autism in women is under diagnosed v men. Does this paper account for that?

Edit: yeah, that’s the conclusion of the analysis. I wonder if there is still more to be found there (ie if it is still closer to 1:1).