London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain • Hacker News Board

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#271

Post by rjsw » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #262

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Supermarkets continue to be rammed, but staff aren't required to wear masks. The wearing of masks by retail employees has been mandatory in England since 24th September [1]. Up here in Manchester I don't recall seeing any supermarket workers not wearing them. I can easily believe that conditions in London are different though. [1] https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2020/09/face-masks-made...

I'll take some pics next time. As I say, we have a huge enforcement gap here.

I'm also in Manchester, haven't seen anyone without a mask in a shop for a long time.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#272

Post by tremon » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:22 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #232

stefan_ wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are just describing a map of population density. Shocker, infections rising in the south east?

No, it's not a map of population density. Rates are rising far faster in the South East than in other parts of England.

Isn't the South East right now overpopulated with transit? By all accounts, lorry traffic between the UK and mainland Europe has seen a massive spike in these weeks. It seems to me that a lot of that traffic must pass through the South East much more than the other parts of England

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#273

Post by throwaway316943 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:24 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #7

orbifold wrote: post #2

At some point natural selection should run its course. Without countermeasures a virus looses lethality over time, these countermeasures select for virus strains which transmit even under extreme counter measures easily. Basically the opposite of what one would hope for.

> Without countermeasures a virus looses lethality over time, these countermeasures select for virus strains which transmit even under extreme counter measures easily. How do you explain smallpox, which has remained highly lethal for a very long time, during much of which we didn't really have countermeasures available?

If a virus remains transmissible after its host’s death that reduces the disadvantage of killing the host. It was also highly infectious through shed skin that could be carried long distances without the host.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#274

Post by dehrmann » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #215

dehrmann wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Masks might slow it, but they're everywhere in the Bay Area, and cases are rising faster than ever, and we're setting new records for new cases, so "just wear a mask in public" isn't enough.

"so "just wear a mask in public" isn't enough." Did someone claim it was? The name of the game is and has always been suppressing the transmission rate of the virus. Masks are a low impact way to help a little bit towards that goal, nothing more.

I was responding to someone in London saying they don't see most people wearing masks in public places. They didn't explicitly say it was enough, but since that was their main criticism of how London is responding, it read like that.

Here's what Biden said:

> The first day I'm inaugurated to say I'm going to ask the public for 100 days to mask. Just 100 days to mask, not forever. One hundred days.

Again, he didn't say that wearing a mask is enough, but with the 100-day timeline, reading between the lines, he's saying it will drive down the case count.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#275

Post by anotherevan » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

raarts wrote: post #229

stevesimmons wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your timing is out. Melbourne started their lockdown in winter. Everyone obeyed it. It was strongly enforced [1, 2]. They beat coronavirus. And now they can enjoy their summer. I live in London. At one point in the summer, our covid rates were lower than Melbourne's. But the UK's messaging was confused and contradictory ("eat out to help out", test and trace was shambolic, rules were not enforced). So no one is the l…

But numbers seem to be up again, this article is speaking of another lockdown: https://t.co/2S9b4HfUhg

That's in Sydney, which is over 700km away. It is also nothing like the scale that the UK is dealing with and will hopefully be dealt with by a short lockdown - possibly not even of the entire city of the politicians pull their finger out quickly enough.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#276

Post by turing_complete » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

throwaway4good wrote: post #98

LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

Here in Germany everyone is wearing a mask within the mandated areas.

Except for Berlin.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#277

Post by Veen » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #156

mhh__ wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We don't do God", as the saying goes, is a major difference between (say) the UK and the US.

Forgotten that quote, which was from the Blair government for those who don’t recall it. As other poster pointed out, monarchy and CoE would disagree though.

So would Blair. He is a committed Catholic.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#278

Post by odiroot » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:34 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #106

LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

It is so fascinating how some cultures are just ready for different environments on this planet. Authoritative collectivist monocultures are doing great with this pandemic, and that is practically the only combination that has a grip on things.

Monoculture is not necessary. Case(s) in point: Malaysia and Singapore.

Collectivist definitely help.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#279

Post by LandR » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:35 PM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #163

LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

Wow. Here in deepest Republican middle America mask wearing by _staff_ in supermarkets is universal. Customers around 90% if you count "nose-slingers" as non compliant. Pretty much nobody just swanning around with no mask these days. Costco has heavy mask enforcement -- they will hunt down and eject anyone with their nose out. Where masks are not worn here is in smaller family owned businesses. Some have notices requ…

> Since this is the US, we have no public transport

What do you mean you have no public transport? Is it cancelled because of covid?

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#280

Post by dehrmann » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 10:36 PM UTC

DanielleMolloy wrote: post #231

war1025 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the argument is that masks are an essentially effortless tactic Masks are effortless, but there is also a lot of reason to believe they are not nearly as effective as was sold to people in the early summer. At some point we get into "just wear a crucifix to ward off the Devil" territory of superstition. Masks are obviously helpful at preventing transmission of some illnesses, but I've seen enough evidence t…

They obviously don't offer 100% protection. Though I've heard a nice analogy by Christian Drosten on the popular German coronavirus podcast: Imagine you are standing close to someone at a party who starts talking to you. You immediately notice their bad breath (~aerosols). Now imagine they are wearing a mask, then imagine you both are. How much of the bad breath would you still notice in each case? That's the effect…

Those sorts of comparisons are good at making the mechanism or action understandable, but that's about it. The huge thing they miss is if masks only somewhat effective, but people wearing them act like they're moderately effective. The real-world, systemic parts of this is where it gets complicated and interesting.