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London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

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Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#251

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

vmception wrote: post #155
leg100 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't consider collectivist to be a pejorative term and don't know of any context where it is. You picked a synonym, selfless. Oh I don't know, socialism scares republican voters shitless, I wouldn't be surprised if collectivism did too.

Okay. These words are not inherently insults regardless of how allergic other people are to adjectives. All good though.

when a word is indeed "not inherently [an] insult", but is a de facto one for millions of people, I'm not clear what is gained by pointing out dictionary definitions or alternative reactions to the term.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#253

Post by LatteLazy »

Veen wrote: post #234
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

> One staff member with covid will rapidly infect a few 1000 people given how busy they are on a Saturday morning That is an enormous over-exaggeration. It's a virus, not a magic spell. Plus, employees are not required to wear masks, but customers are. > Time and again we see them decline scientific advice Which scientific advice have they declined? So far as I can see, Boris is entirely under the influence of SAGE a…

>employees are not required to wear masks

That's exactly my point.

He ignored calls for a September "circuit breaker", then had to panic in October.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/13/world/boris-johnson-ignor...

This article lists a host of other times scientists have been ignored then proven right:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/uk-government-boris-johnson-...

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#254

Post by 317070 »

twic wrote: post #246
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

See table 2 in the most recent weekly national COVID-19 surveillance report [1], which breaks down where outbreaks have happened. In London, there were 220 outbreaks last week: Educational 108 Hospital 42 Care home 38 Workplace 20 Other 10 Prisons 1 Food outlet/restaurant 1 This is outbreaks, not infections - i don't think we have statistics on that, so this is the best indication we have of where the virus is spread…

One needs to be careful with such statistics though. The Netherlands had similar numbers but luckily also reported they could only trace 20% of the outbreaks. And that puts things in a very different perspective.

Of the traced outbreaks, most were in schools. But that is not really a surprise, as outbreaks in schools are really easy to trace. If you have a group of 25 students which basically spend 40 hours a week together and they all get sick, super obvious. But how do you trace clients of a restaurant back to a restaurant? You mostly don't.

My reading of these lists is as a mix between places that are easy to trace, and places where really a lot of infections are happening. It is hard to tell which are which and which are both. Not to mention where the other missing 80% of cases came from.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#255

Post by andyjohnson0 »

LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

> Supermarkets continue to be rammed, but staff aren't required to wear masks.

The wearing of masks by retail employees has been mandatory in England since 24th September [1].

Up here in Manchester I don't recall seeing any supermarket workers not wearing them. I can easily believe that conditions in London are different though.

[1] https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2020/09/face-masks-made...

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#256

Post by ljm »

mhh__ wrote: post #123
pjc50 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. We could have chosen to be an island, but that would have meant quarantining business travel.

The comedy of errors around the government has probably been worse though. Barnard Castle alone probably killed thousands, the way this government is doing contracts is probably criminal, we fucked up the T&T for months etc. etc. etc. etc.

A comedy of errors assumes some level of ignorance or carelessness, but we have 10 years (and counting) of empirical evidence that this government is acting out of nothing but self-preservation and malice.

Voting Mr Bean into office would constitute a comedy of errors; but what we have now (when you also throw Brexit into the mix) is far from funny.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#257

Post by anonymousDan »

rweir wrote: post #88
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

> Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50% where? my counter-anecdote is I've taken to counting everyone on the carriage I'm on (between zone 2 and 1), and it's never more than 2-3 people without a mask, something like 90-95% compliance (seems down from a few months ago, though). in supermarkets it seems higher than that, to the extent I was quite weirded out to see a single person not wearing a mask last…

Are you serious? The tube and overground is about 25% no masks in the morning for me.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#258

Post by LatteLazy »

twic wrote: post #246
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

See table 2 in the most recent weekly national COVID-19 surveillance report [1], which breaks down where outbreaks have happened. In London, there were 220 outbreaks last week: Educational 108 Hospital 42 Care home 38 Workplace 20 Other 10 Prisons 1 Food outlet/restaurant 1 This is outbreaks, not infections - i don't think we have statistics on that, so this is the best indication we have of where the virus is spread…

Edit, ignore the next paragraph, I was looking at this week vs last wekk...

Weirdly I see slightly different numbers... Table 2 on page number 26 of the first pdf? Sorry if I'm looking in the wrong place...

Either way, I think this relies on contact tracing data, but contact tracing doesn't happen on trains or in supermarkets (super markets are exempt why exactly? No one knows). That's why their zeros...

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#259

Post by MaulingMonkey »

dboreham wrote: post #163
LatteLazy wrote: post #59

I live in London. The core issue here is that the government hasn't really taken any action. There are "rules" but they are full of loopholes and totally unenforced. 2 cases in particular stand out to me: Compliance with mask wearing on TFL is less than 50%. "Covid enforcement" officers walk around about one train in 50, and despite it being 8 months since this started, "I don't have one" is an acceptable answer to w…

Wow. Here in deepest Republican middle America mask wearing by _staff_ in supermarkets is universal. Customers around 90% if you count "nose-slingers" as non compliant. Pretty much nobody just swanning around with no mask these days. Costco has heavy mask enforcement -- they will hunt down and eject anyone with their nose out. Where masks are not worn here is in smaller family owned businesses. Some have notices requ…

Here in the liberal northwest, where we at least have a token amount of public transport, I see the bus signs alternating between their usual route number + description and "masks required". Haven't been on one to verify use by ridership, or to see what the driver's reaction to noncompliant riders is. The higher staff-to-rider ratio might help?

Outdoor mask use is limited (50%?) but at least quite sparse and distant (it's pretty cold, and wet, and everyone drives anyways.) Indoors the numbers are much higher (I'm guessing at least 90%), including for smaller businesses. I'm trying to think of a single business around here (small or large) without at least a sign saying you need to mask up before entry, and I'm drawing a blank. Several have soap dispensers too, and haphazard plexiglass sheets to help physically separate staff from customers.

Food is strictly delivery and take-out. Even when dine-in was still AFAIK legal, some places had it already voluntarilly closed off anyways.

Re: London put in emergency lockdown as U.K. fights new strain

#260

Post by pwg »

curiousllama wrote: post #207
dboreham wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Here in deepest Republican middle America mask wearing by _staff_ in supermarkets is universal. Customers around 90% if you count "nose-slingers" as non compliant. Pretty much nobody just swanning around with no mask these days. Costco has heavy mask enforcement -- they will hunt down and eject anyone with their nose out. Where masks are not worn here is in smaller family owned businesses. Some have notices requ…

"nose slingers"

My interpretation is that this is referring to those individuals who are wearing a surgical type mask, with the top of the mask resting on their upper lip and their nose not covered by the mask.
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