California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state • Hacker News Board

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#281

Post by emteycz » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

jamiltron wrote: post #269

emteycz wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't necessarily require the founder investing large amounts, Bezos began with a small investment - and a lot of ingenuity. My own business began this year with $0 and I'm way past $100k. I had to live in my car for two months, absolutely worth it though, it helped me focus like never before. I created excellent product and then spent a lot of time both online and offline finding customers. And now imagine you…

"A small investment" and the ability to take on risk sounds like a significantly privileged position the average worker is not afforded.

Every single worker with a wage is more privileged than me - I had zero, no job, no house, and debt. Them not being able to take risks is just bullshit, they're simply afraid or don't even want to - and that is alright, people like me will happily employ them - unless employing or being in the state becomes too risky.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#282

Post by mcbuilder » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #253

gfxgirl wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco spends $50k per homeless person. The problem doesn't seem like it's money

Individual cities can’t solve national problems. Due to migration there are no great solutions at the individual city level, other than being “blessed” with an inhospitable area.

In 2015 84% of Santa Clara homeless where from the county when they lost their home. Only 6% where out of state when they became homeless. Source: https://www.sccgov.org/sites/opa/nr/Documents/SantaClaraCoun...

I live in SoCal so I thought you would even see more homeless migrants because of the weather. However, from speaking with homeless I would say in my experience most have lived in the area for a long time, with only one beach bum guy I spoke with who actually was "fresh off the bus". Until I saw the statistics though I was also under this misconception.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#283

Post by secabeen » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #261

elhudy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people resist such a tax is because there is no transparency into where the money is going. If there was traceability into putting that money towards positive social programs, for example, there might be less opposition. I couldn't find what the tax was supposed to go towards but I also didn't make it beyond the paywall.

This! California had had a lot of tax revenue over the last couple of decades but doesn’t seem to have much to show for it. Where is the explanation for how the money was spent, why it hasn’t paid off, and what would be different? As far as I can tell it’s not ‘earmarked’ it’s just more tax for the general fund. Also, Earmarks have never been trustworthy so it wouldn’t matter even if it were earmarked.

The California state budget is here, in pretty good detail: http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/budget/2020-21EN/#/BudgetDetail

Reports here go back over 10 years, so there's plenty of data to analyze.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#284

Post by yowlingcat » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

adjkant wrote: post #68

Well I guess I'll take the apparently bold stance here that this isn't the end of Silicon Valley or California and yes this is fair and further, good. When people are getting 5-6% returns on investments (minimum), 0.4% is still not even stopping the rich get richer effect. Not to mention that it's almost certain no one here will ever be touched by this tax. If you're going to move where you live or significantly alte…

> that's a real sign of just how far American greed has gone.

I find that a hard statement to square with the founding principles of American culture. The USA was a country that declared independence and fought a war over taxation. The colonies as a whole were a magnet for opportunistic pioneers -- in fact, for much of history, "opportunistic pioneer" (for better or worse) was and is what people think of when they think of American.

So while you're correct that it is a certain kind of greed and self-interest, where I can't understand what you're trying to say is "how far X has gone." What does how far mean? The greed has been at this level since nation's conception. And ostensibly, it was the whole /point/ of the nation.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#285

Post by doggydogs94 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

The biggest attraction to California is the fantastic climate. At some point (higher tax levels) though, even the climate cannot hold you.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#286

Post by nondeveloper » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

ur-whale wrote: post #243

I find the idea lovely for the following reason: I am a great believer in the idea of competition, especially between nation states, and in the US, between states. If California were to ever make such a dumb move (I'm 99% sure they wont'), they are going to create tons of opportunities for nearby states as all the rich folks will move elsewhere with their capital . Please, California, keep on taxing the goose with th…

I strongly agree. Competition is good for everyone.

There are 50 states, many of them nice places to work, live, and have a family. We moved to Utah from California this year and have loved it.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#287

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

iaHN wrote: post #270

cltby wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich guy: “Mind keeping your hands off my stuff?” Confiscationist: “he’s attacking me!”

The underlying counterargument was that it was never completely "your stuff" to begin with.

Background reading: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#288

Post by daenz » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

Scarblac wrote: post #276

admiralspoo wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty already have. Eric Schmidt, for example, is now a citizen of Cyprus https://www.seattletimes.com/business/rich-americans-increas...

Which is why the proposal is based on where time is spent, not what you're a citizen of.

Why does a wealthy citizen of another country have to physically spend 60 days in California? You're suggesting that the wording of the law is not trivial to circumvent, especially for people with large amounts of wealth.

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#289

Post by selimthegrim » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

apta wrote: post #244

Straw wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I disagree with the whole idea of income taxes. You should be taxed for owning things, because the government enforces your property rights, not just for labor, for which the government doesn't directly contribute at all. I should be able to earn money for my labor without the government taking a fraction every time it moves around. Even if you move to the woods, you're still taking military protection fr…

Exactly. Islam took a similar route with Zakat (a form of "charity tax" if you will, over 1400 years ago, and it's proven to work. When you look at history, there was a period of time, when everyone paid their share of Zakat, and when there were no poor people left to take it! It's not that much either, only 2.5% for currencies like gold and silver over a minimum threshold (so the poor/lower class are exempted anyway…

Which period was this? Because when I see what people with bank accounts in PK do now when Zakat is levied...

Re: California plan for wealth tax on anyone who spends 60 days a year in the state

#290

Post by staticman2 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

admiralspoo wrote: post #233

staticman2 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demographics are trending towards Democrats in Texas though that doesn't mean it will necessarily happen.

False. If demographic trends (how Texas hispanics shifted to the GOP from 2016) are extrapolated, Texas is actually trending towards the GOP.

That's not the impression i've gotten listening to podcasts on the issue. The impression i've gotten is the general trend has been shifting democrat but will not necessarily shift all the way.