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Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

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Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

#611

Post by golergka »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #605
golergka wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that these vehicles are significantly faster than going on foot. When you create an asset pipeline for an open world game, you depend on two things: the camera and character movement speed. Character angle and distance determines how well will assets look to the player, and how detailed they should be. Character speed determines how fast you need to load different assets in the background. As far as I kn…

Both GTA 5 and RDR 2 have optional first person cameras, in addition to third person. They handle streaming pretty much seamlessly, and with no apparent bugs. This game is just incapable. Objects sometimes don’t get streamed in. Sometimes it takes 20 seconds for them to transition from low LOD mode to high LOD model. Sometimes the high LOD model loads but the textures remain of the low LOD model. And that’s even when…

> Both GTA 5 and RDR 2 have optional first person cameras, in addition to third person.

This is technically true, but these are not cameras that players primarily use, and these are not cameras that art assets and their quality, texture resolutions and LODs are primarily optimised for and benchmarked by.

> They handle streaming pretty much seamlessly, and with no apparent bugs.

Yes. This, I completely agree with. But they are built by a studio that has built and QAed these systems for 20 years (or longer, if you include 2d GTA games). And in game worlds that are significantly less visually complex than Cyberpunk.

Don't misunderstand me. RDR 2 and GTA 5 are fantastic, stunning games. I loved these worlds. But from strictly technical standpoint, Night City has drastically more completely different assets next to each other.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

#612

Post by ianleeclark »

Kiro wrote: post #569
ianleeclark wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Vegas was a standalone game with expansions of its own. Fallout 4 came after it. A lot of people consider New Vegas to be the only good one to come after the first 2, but I can't commentate on that, as I stopped playing the fallout series after New Vegas and attempting to play Fallout 3.

I love FO 1 and 2 but was never interested in FO3 and even less in FO4. Would you recommend just playing New Vegas?

Absolutely. I was always a huge fan of the originals and other old-school RPGs like Baldurs Gate, and this is one of the few that actually scratches that itch. The game is highly interconnected and every choice has a realized impact.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

#614

Post by LeoNatan25 »

golergka wrote: post #611
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both GTA 5 and RDR 2 have optional first person cameras, in addition to third person. They handle streaming pretty much seamlessly, and with no apparent bugs. This game is just incapable. Objects sometimes don’t get streamed in. Sometimes it takes 20 seconds for them to transition from low LOD mode to high LOD model. Sometimes the high LOD model loads but the textures remain of the low LOD model. And that’s even when…

> Both GTA 5 and RDR 2 have optional first person cameras, in addition to third person. This is technically true, but these are not cameras that players primarily use, and these are not cameras that art assets and their quality, texture resolutions and LODs are primarily optimised for and benchmarked by. > They handle streaming pretty much seamlessly, and with no apparent bugs. Yes. This, I completely agree with. But…

I don't necessarily agree. 2077 fails at streaming at the macro level, not just the micro. Entire basic structures fail to load sometimes. And if modding has thought us, at least on PC, the Rockstar streaming engine is capable of streaming many more assets than initially designed (or optimized) for. W3 was OK at streaming, but obviously not at this scale. So, in my opinion, what is going on is that they stressed that system to the breaking point, and instead of rewriting it, or at least optimizing it, they called it "good enough". In my book, streaming open worlds is a solved solution in modern times. Certainly in the days of GTA3 and Driver, it was a novel concept and there was a lot more leeway for LOD issues and streaming problems. Consoles and PCs also had much less memory and slow spinning disks. But we are not at those times anymore, so I don't see any reason why we should give them slack just because they dreamed big bug failed completely at the technical level. It all boils to the overall issue, which is why they released it at all, if it's so completely broken, and so completely cut of promised content. Just delay it until it is done; it's not like the Witcher cash cow didn't provide enough cash.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

#615

Post by mercer »

bird_monster wrote: post #471
chrisco255 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not all about the endings though. Mass Effect famously only had 2 endings (which everyone raged about), but the plot itself is interesting to see the different branches in the story on their own.

It's not about ending, but the branching story isn't actually branching at all. You make a decision and, regardless of what you chose, end up in the same place. The amount of decisions that actually stick, or actually change your progression through the game, are very low. "Do x or y" where both X and Y cannot be undone and seem like heavy decisions, ultimately do not change the outcome of any future story items. Sid…

Even with just one ending, a game can do branching well for all the sub-story endings that most games have.

Hell, even The Witcher 3 did this incredibly well. Spoiler incoming for those who haven't played it yet.

"The Bloody Baron" quest not only has three endings, IIRC, but one of your choices can lead to entire village dying. And I'm pretty sure there's a few other variables that can end up having some effect at later points in the story.

Granted, it's probably the most-cited example of great Witcher 3 quests, second perhaps only to the romancing options (again, 3 possible outcomes), but I've already come across a few more main and sub-quests where reloading and trying a different option was meaningful.

As part of the journey, they might not affect the ending, but in an RPG style game with quests, it's just as much about the journey.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

#616

Post by CydeWeys »

garretraziel wrote: post #303
CydeWeys wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already out and apparently it works fine. You're basically remoting into a PC version of the game.

Interestingly, I've read somewhere here on HN that Stadia (which runs on Linux) version is basically a PS version (= FreeBSD version), stripped from dependency on Sony's libraries (and, from what I've got from the reactions, also with better graphical settings).

You might know more about this than I do. Regardless, it does sound like the Stadia version is running well, which is probably a result of it running on hardware that is actually capable of running it, unlike the previous gen consoles. The current gen consoles are also having better luck running it.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

#617

Post by mercer »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #466
dawnerd wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m over 10 hours in on pc and there’s more than just “some bugs”. This game is still in alpha. I don’t know why people are being so defensive. We were looking forward to a great game and were mislead. I’m personally just gonna hold off on playing anymore until they actually finish the game.

I think there are a few reactions that are reading differently to different people. 1) This game is not up to par. It's not as advertised, and for some of the most standardized systems (consoles), it doesn't even work. That's really bad on CDPR. False advertising is unacceptable to some. 2) This surprised nobody. Acting surprised is like being surprised you big mac doesn't look like the marketing materials. That's on…

Why would Sony pull the game and offer refunds if this is an AAA release 'just like any other'?

Plus, I played a number of AAA games unpatched recently and none of them were as bad as this game. This really is quite something else.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

#618

Post by mercer »

mordymoop wrote: post #216
leetcrew wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm enjoying the game too and I was defending it in a thread the other day. but now that I've gotten past the intro arc, I'm noticing a lot more issues. mostly just little stuff like NPCs warping around in the background, a suitcase levitating in place when it should be in jackie's hand, objects clipping through walls that can't be picked up. doesn't break the game, but it does take away from the immersion. I did enc…

Hah, I had the same exact issue with the guard in the elevator, except he just went through the wall a few feet and ended up being equally unreachable. It really broke me out of what was otherwise turning out to be a good action scene. I’ve been playing a huge amount of God of War (2018), really just an absurd number of hours, I’ve completed almost all the side quests, and the number of distracting bugs, glitchy char…

Interesting. When I played God of War one of the things that really stood out to me too was how solid everything about the game felt. I can't recall many games where something like that was noticeably better than everything else.

Really one of the better games I've played.

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

#619

Post by mercer »

krzyk wrote: post #298
neaden wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's a shame that this game now has such a bad reputation for relatively minor & mostly avoidable reasons." I disagree this adds up to minor reasons. If you bought the game for PS4 based on the advertisements getting a buggy mess isn't minor.

Maybe, but this is one of the few games that were targeted to PC and then just "ported" to console. Usually we get a inferior console port on PC (GTA IV, Batman game etc.), so I'm glad this time it was different.

That's untrue. They explicitly targeted current-gen consoles, told us the game runs well on them, and even released a themed Xbox One!

Re: Cyberpunk 2077 Refunds

#620

Post by BoorishBears »

fuzxi wrote: post #600
BoorishBears wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share this sentiment if it's worth anything. I'm playing on PC. I'm playing at 1600p with a 3090 and a 10900k, so I think it's valid to say I'm playing the "best version" of the game technically speaking. The bugs are not why I requested (but was denied)_a refund, the writing is just truly terrible. - In the entire game there are about 6 dialog choices that matter. Every single other piece of dialog will result in…

If you were denied the refund on Steam, you should know that you can resubmit refund requests to have a different employee (probably) review it. If your requests are all getting denied in about the same amount of time, it's automated and you should open a support ticket where you request a refund rather than using the refund flow. I have gotten bad or not-as-advertised games refunded this way after being denied, desp…

I'll keep this in mind for next time, my "petty revenge" was sharing my Steam library with a friend who was about to buy it. Denied them a sale and saved said friend having to pay money for the spectacle
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