Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy? • Hacker News Board

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#161

Post by throw_m239339 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

there is very little money in music today, too many artists, very little audience ready to pay for it. Either you live in the right place where there is a scene and you might be able to have a career in making your own music, or you need to consider yourself a composer and make music for others (movies, tvshows, ads, ...), this is where the money is at today, not in trying to be a music star. Even gigs don't pay that much compared to that, because one needs an audience.

As for online services. Spotify is 100% pointless when it comes to monetization, bandcamp is a bit better if you can provide physical goods.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#162

Post by maxfurman » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #152

josephg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear what you’re saying, but Spotify solves a problem I never managed to solve with CDs: it solves discovery. I used to go to music shops and browse albums, and I had no idea which CD would be worth my money because I couldn’t listen to them and find out! Even from a band I like I would often buy their other albums then get home and be disappointed because they didn’t work for me. In comparison, spotify will find a…

>And lots of songs I don’t like One of my wishes is that I could tell Apple Music/Spotify that I don't want its playlists/discovery to ever play me music from $X genre because I just don't like even if it's considered really good by the standards of the genre.

I think you can say "don't play this song again" (the UX has changed a few times so I'm not sure where the button is.) Do that enough times and the algorithm will get the drift.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#163

Post by ghaff » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

daniellarusso wrote: post #157

vpilcx wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The younger generation has no concept of listening to a song you "don't like" 50 times, simply because you listened to the album you purchased 100 times. I'm not below the age of 25 but this seems like a really archaic statement. This is basically equivalent to "Kids these days have no idea what it means to have to watch commercials and shows you didn't want to watch to get to that show you were really looking forw…

There was a comment here a few months ago about a person bringing their young child to visit somebody in the hospital. The patient had a TV in their room, so they handed the child the TV remote, and the child asked how can they fast-forward the current show.

A remote. How high tech. And I assume the TV was in color too. Kids these days are so spoiled. :-)

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#164

Post by daniellarusso » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

throwaway13337 wrote: post #44

An aspect here is that a lot more people are primarily on social media services like YouTube and twitch. The people they follow cannot play popular music because of DMCA take downs. The result is that a natural avenue for discovery music is cut off. Consumers will not associate the experience of the thing they're enjoying with the music as has traditionally been the case with TV, movies, and bars. The setting has a l…

This is definitely becoming a bigger problem.

Mixcloud seems to be the only live video streaming platform that has worked out licensing rights for DJs to livestream without ‘censorship’.

To me, the worst is not even the takedown, it is the partial ‘muting’ of the audio at some random point in the DJ’s set.

And just like most streaming providers, where the license will change on a whim, a video that was not censored, can wind up being censored months or years later, or vice versa, where a DJ set that was blocked, can now be uploaded again.

I have been lurking in reddit on the /DJs and /beatmatch threads, and the topic of how to livestream is very popular.

The current advice for youtube is to make a simple video of all the songs you want to use, upload it as a private video, wait for youtube to flag any ‘bad’ songs, then make your mix off of the allowed songs, then upload or livestream and hope the licensing rights of the music you used is ok with Alphabet.

I am not a FB/Insta user, but the advice for livestreaming DJ sets on those platforms seem to be don’t stream for longer than 45 minutes and don’t allow the livestream to be saved for later, or you could be banned/suspended.

Facebook and Alphabet are the gatekeepers of ‘longform’ pop culture right now.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#165

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

ubercow13 wrote: post #153

randomsearch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re projecting your free time / dedication to discovery on other people and that’s unfair. Spotify’s discovery tools for example are a real boon to many. That said, I do feel the same as you about the “good old days”. Owning music was a very different experience. It doesn’t help that streaming apps haven’t worked out the UX yet (god knows why, they’ve had long enough). But... flip side... if I could time travel ba…

>If you make a list of the greatest bands/artists of the latest 10 years and compare it to any decade since pop music got going, it doesn’t compare Ah, a classic meme: https://old.reddit.com/r/lewronggeneration/

[deleted]

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#166

Post by daniellarusso » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #51

throwaway13337 wrote: post #44

An aspect here is that a lot more people are primarily on social media services like YouTube and twitch. The people they follow cannot play popular music because of DMCA take downs. The result is that a natural avenue for discovery music is cut off. Consumers will not associate the experience of the thing they're enjoying with the music as has traditionally been the case with TV, movies, and bars. The setting has a l…

They absolutely can play popular music. They just don't want to pay for it. All popular YouTubers and streamers are businesses which is a part that is often forgotten. They are all acting like they are friends with their viewers but in reality they are businesses just like a car wash, restaurant, plumber, etc.

This is wrong.

If I want to DJ a livestream on Youtube, I can only play certain songs, regardless of my willingness to pay for the songs.

Certain music is prohibited from the platform.

It is not a business, I am not trying to sell ads or promote anything.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#167

Post by thrav » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:24 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #128

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

You’re projecting your free time / dedication to discovery on other people and that’s unfair. Spotify’s discovery tools for example are a real boon to many. That said, I do feel the same as you about the “good old days”. Owning music was a very different experience. It doesn’t help that streaming apps haven’t worked out the UX yet (god knows why, they’ve had long enough). But... flip side... if I could time travel ba…

I think this has more to do with our culture making everything about the individual. You can’t name bands anymore, because explosive popularity is the realm of the individual artist.

Even massive individual artists, disappear into relative obscurity when they move into a band format (John Mayer).

Kanye, Taylor, Nicki, Lizzo, Justin, Drake, Ariana, Billie, Miley...

Even hip-hop, which seems like a distinctly individual genre, used to be ruled by groups. NWA, Wu-Tang, Roots, etc.

Our current culture over-values individuals and loves the myth of the one wo/man show. Teams are boring. Give us someone to follow.

You see this with founders too. Even if the company was created by a team, there must be one figurehead.

I guess this is because so much of marketing is aspirational. Most people try to purchase the identity they want. It’s easier to sell an identity with an actual person.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#168

Post by ghaff » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:28 PM UTC

goatinaboat wrote: post #72

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

When all you had was physical media, you listened to albums over and over got to know them, relished the new albums you purchased and had to take the time to decide between one or the other. Yes, it's a totally different experience now, I don't know how old you are but I suspect we are both of the generation that straddles both models. On the one hand, I do love the convenience, my phone can identify a song and I can…

You sound like me.

Streaming in general has changed a lot of things. Probably for the better but can't make an omelette without cracking eggs and all that.

Video is the same way. We've mostly lost the collective cultural experience of Must See TV Thursday (or whatever). Or not. I haven't watched the series yet but Baby Yoda certainly made the rounds. Though there is a definitely increased cultural fragmentation of which at least some of the consequences are a clear negative.

In general it's all mostly a positive but some things get lost along the way. Time to play some Apple Music playlist :-/

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#169

Post by daniellarusso » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

fb03 wrote: post #133

oblio wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or maybe i'm just getting old and cranky. Quite likely. There are a lot of studies that show that we're "programmed" to like music we listened to as teenagers. Even though we like other kinds of music we listen to as adults, they don't trigger the same level of response in the brain.

I can agree, but what makes me doubt it is that "back in the day" (oh shit) we had lots of mainstream music that was different between themselves. we had the hiphoppers, we had the people that craved fast "whitney houston remix" level high energy dance stuff, we had the "hey i'm mean" rockers. all sharing the top charts. if you take the medium bpm between the top 100 billboard tracks right now it must be somewhere be…

I have noticed the lower BPMs recently.

Maybe 2020 was just not a good year for energetic, uplifting music?

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#170

Post by tyu2 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

thrav wrote: post #167

randomsearch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re projecting your free time / dedication to discovery on other people and that’s unfair. Spotify’s discovery tools for example are a real boon to many. That said, I do feel the same as you about the “good old days”. Owning music was a very different experience. It doesn’t help that streaming apps haven’t worked out the UX yet (god knows why, they’ve had long enough). But... flip side... if I could time travel ba…

I think this has more to do with our culture making everything about the individual. You can’t name bands anymore, because explosive popularity is the realm of the individual artist. Even massive individual artists, disappear into relative obscurity when they move into a band format (John Mayer). Kanye, Taylor, Nicki, Lizzo, Justin, Drake, Ariana, Billie, Miley... Even hip-hop, which seems like a distinctly individua…

> Our current culture over-values individuals and loves the myth of the one wo/man show. Teams are boring. Give us someone to follow.

People repeat it often, but it's not true, it can't explain Blankpink, BTS, Twice, Red Velvet, etc. It's probably just americanism to emphasize individuals, but big music is produced by teams (and not small teams) regardless whether it appears to look like an individual.