Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy? • Hacker News Board

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#151

Post by mhh__ » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:45 PM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

> [Back in my day xyz]

There is nothing stopping you listening to the full albums, and platforms like streaming have allowed some unbelievably niche artists and albums to happen that would've never ever made it out of the studio in a traditional record label.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#152

Post by ghaff » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

josephg wrote: post #60

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

I hear what you’re saying, but Spotify solves a problem I never managed to solve with CDs: it solves discovery. I used to go to music shops and browse albums, and I had no idea which CD would be worth my money because I couldn’t listen to them and find out! Even from a band I like I would often buy their other albums then get home and be disappointed because they didn’t work for me. In comparison, spotify will find a…

>And lots of songs I don’t like

One of my wishes is that I could tell Apple Music/Spotify that I don't want its playlists/discovery to ever play me music from $X genre because I just don't like even if it's considered really good by the standards of the genre.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#153

Post by ubercow13 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #128

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

You’re projecting your free time / dedication to discovery on other people and that’s unfair. Spotify’s discovery tools for example are a real boon to many. That said, I do feel the same as you about the “good old days”. Owning music was a very different experience. It doesn’t help that streaming apps haven’t worked out the UX yet (god knows why, they’ve had long enough). But... flip side... if I could time travel ba…

>If you make a list of the greatest bands/artists of the latest 10 years and compare it to any decade since pop music got going, it doesn’t compare

Ah, a classic meme: https://old.reddit.com/r/lewronggeneration/

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#154

Post by maxerickson » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #49

Streaming music sucks. It might seem weird but I don't like it. The first music I ever 'owned' myself personally were songs I taped off the radio. After that I started pirating music the same way I would collect songs on the radio, after that I started buying CD's, today I buy songs and albums from artists and producers directly. Building playlists on a streaming service is not the same as building a music collection…

Now do one about live music vs recordings and then after that do one about making music vs listening to music.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#155

Post by ghaff » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:57 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #76

mackrevinack wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I miss owning my music collection" there's nothing stopping you from having both! I havnt done this yet but im thinking about cancelling my spotify subscription soon and only signing up for a few months out the year just to discover new stuff, then put the rest of the money I would have given spotify that year towards buying the music I want to keep. I won't have to worry about songs disappearing anymore or my playl…

> there's nothing stopping you from having both! Actually it seems the entire music industry including the distributors don't want sales - they seem to prefer streaming. I remember when apple music came out and I couldn't listen to my music anymore

Apple seemingly did some screwy things with Apple Match and so forth and I've had to fix up some things in my library as a result. (I actually have a batch of CDs I need to re-rip.) But what's there today seems to work pretty well separating what I have my own copies of vs. what I only have available via Apple Music.

Though maybe you're saying something differently.

I think the music industry is perfectly happy to sell you music at $1/song and even physical CDs if you like. It's just that, for most people who don't already have large curated collections, it apparently makes sense to subscribe for $10/month rather than buy albums for $10. For me it makes sense to subscribe and occasionally also buy something to add to my owned collection.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#156

Post by strogonoff » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #143

strogonoff wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was seriously intended as an analogy, it is at best comparing apples to apple tree fertilizer. One can be appreciated by anyone for its own sake, answering fundamental human needs; the other can only be used by certain qualified technicians. 100% of people who heard my song in background of John Streamer’s Minecraft speedrun are capable of enjoying music for its own sake. (In fact, they may be more likely to…

> 100% of people who heard my song in background of John Streamer’s Minecraft speedrun are capable of enjoying music for its own sake. Why doesn't the streamer use their marketing power to promote independent musicians that don't have big record label deals then? That would be even better because successful independent musicians weaken the music industry and could lead to more competition.

From my understanding (not a vlogger, not a streamer), it may be safe to buy music from content platforms[0] but generally music is tricky business: no matter what you use, you are risking some YouTube music ID bug or frivolous DMCA takedown shutting down your channel at any moment.

Even if you have gotten a green light from the original musician, go prove this to a giant corporation that will never have a human representative speak to you. (Stories about people publishing their own music on YouTube only to get it taken down due to a false positive were posted even on HN, I believe.)

Thus, creators seem to use either 1) no music at all, 2) their own music, or 3) generic-sounding music from some royalty-free content platform.

I am wondering whether Bandcamp will finally do the next logical thing and streamline the process of licensing music for video creators directly from musicians (those who opted in).

[0] For obvious reasons, few good musicians are willing to publish music on those royalty-free commoditized music farms.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#157

Post by daniellarusso » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

vpilcx wrote: post #104

oarabbus_ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with your poignant "getting to know an album" statement, but I fundamentally disagree with your general point of your issues with streaming; I think it's a boon to have such a wide selection of music at your fingertips. An asymptotically infinite, for practical purposes, amount of music. That being said, I really appreciate your perspective, and everything you said about physical media, the radio,…

> The younger generation has no concept of listening to a song you "don't like" 50 times, simply because you listened to the album you purchased 100 times. I'm not below the age of 25 but this seems like a really archaic statement. This is basically equivalent to "Kids these days have no idea what it means to have to watch commercials and shows you didn't want to watch to get to that show you were really looking forw…

There was a comment here a few months ago about a person bringing their young child to visit somebody in the hospital.

The patient had a TV in their room, so they handed the child the TV remote, and the child asked how can they fast-forward the current show.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#158

Post by commandlinefan » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:04 PM UTC

comprev wrote: post #103

I don't use streaming services because I disagree with their insulting revenue for the artists. Fortunately I've always been one to seek out more underground artists, and platforms like Bandcamp have been amazing. Not only do the artists get an order of magnitude more revenue, sellers can offer merchandise and physical media (vinyl, CD, cassette) too. These often include a digital copy. Due to the closer connection b…

What IS the revenue agreement? This seems to be the most closely guarded secret in America.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#159

Post by ubercow13 » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

foepys wrote: post #51

throwaway13337 wrote: post #44

An aspect here is that a lot more people are primarily on social media services like YouTube and twitch. The people they follow cannot play popular music because of DMCA take downs. The result is that a natural avenue for discovery music is cut off. Consumers will not associate the experience of the thing they're enjoying with the music as has traditionally been the case with TV, movies, and bars. The setting has a l…

They absolutely can play popular music. They just don't want to pay for it. All popular YouTubers and streamers are businesses which is a part that is often forgotten. They are all acting like they are friends with their viewers but in reality they are businesses just like a car wash, restaurant, plumber, etc.

Can they? Is Youtube's system set up to allow that? They'll still get hit by content ID or automated takedown notices from labels or whatever, have to fight each case, and still have the possibility of the strikes causing their channel to close, or the entirety of the income from a video being diverted to a record label.

Re: Streaming Is Stalling: Can Music Keep Up in the Attention Economy?

#160

Post by ghaff » Sat, Dec 19, 2020, 2:07 PM UTC

vpilcx wrote: post #104

oarabbus_ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with your poignant "getting to know an album" statement, but I fundamentally disagree with your general point of your issues with streaming; I think it's a boon to have such a wide selection of music at your fingertips. An asymptotically infinite, for practical purposes, amount of music. That being said, I really appreciate your perspective, and everything you said about physical media, the radio,…

> The younger generation has no concept of listening to a song you "don't like" 50 times, simply because you listened to the album you purchased 100 times. I'm not below the age of 25 but this seems like a really archaic statement. This is basically equivalent to "Kids these days have no idea what it means to have to watch commercials and shows you didn't want to watch to get to that show you were really looking forw…

I didn't read it as a criticism so much as an observation. Maybe a medium is the message sort of thing. And going back pre-CD it would often be the case that you'd get very familiar with one side of a record because there was nothing on the other side you especially cared for.

I do think the act of buying (or taping) albums is a fundamentally different experience than using streaming services for the most part. I infrequently listen to entire albums these days. I'm much more likely to listen to some mix of either my own library or an Apple playlist.