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I've walked away from software development

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Re: I've walked away from software development

#211

Post by rightbyte »

jacques_chester wrote: post #143
mmcgaha wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The addreall comment blew me away too. When did smart people start taking PEDs? My guess is that software development is a field where it is more common for folks with the ADHD hyperfocus to excel, but if there is a problem brewing it should be addressed.

> When did smart people start taking PEDs? When did ill people start taking antibiotics? > My guess is that software development is a field where it is more common for folks with the ADHD hyperfocus to excel Your guess isn't quite right. Hyperfocus is not something that can be turned on and off, and the subject of hyperfocus is not chosen at will. It's a symptom that demonstrates that "attention deficit" is an unfort…

>> When did smart people start taking PEDs?

> When did ill people start taking antibiotics?

It is kinda implied that it is PED abuse right? Not medication.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#212

Post by notacoward »

dm319 wrote: post #201
2sk21 wrote: post #24

Everyone working in the software industry needs to understand the basic principles of financial independence. At some point, you will either burn out or will get pushed out. This is a high-reward high-cost (in terms of mental strain) line of work. Financial independence is what will enable you to walk away from a toxic situation. I suggest starting here: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started

Wow, how about finding something you enjoy / a team you enjoy working with and doing that instead? I mean 40 years is a long time, and what do you do then after? Nothing? Or browse HN all day? Or do a job that you enjoy?

I think you're kind of missing OP's point. No matter how enthusiastic you are at the beginning of your career, that field of things you enjoy and teams you enjoy working with is likely to narrow over time for a couple of reasons.

Everything's more fun when it's new and you're learning fast, but less and less seems new as you gain experience. A lot of "new" things are obviously reincarnations of things you learned long ago. Others just seem obviously stupid according to whatever biases you've accumulated (and we all do). Over time, you have to roam further and further afield to find anything truly new and not stupid. Sometimes that's so far afield that it's beyond anything that would have ever interested you even when young.

As for teams, well, some things are just pretty constant. What job is not going to have tedious planning sessions, testing woes, source-control and deployment drudgery? Only one where you're a prima donna pushing all of that onto other people, or one headed for disaster because you're all incompetent cowboys. If it was all fun and games, they wouldn't pay so much for people to do it, and liking your immediate team only gets you so far.

Neither burnout nor retirement is like a light switch, going instantly from love to hate of the entire profession. It's a gradual weakening of the attractions and strengthening of the discontents, until you reach a tipping point. It might seem sudden or unexpected, but quite often it really isn't. It's something people can plan for, and that many more should.

As for what to do after, why do you assume that not wanting this career any more means not wanting any career (or hobby) at all? Second careers are not uncommon, and often one of the things that's frustrating about "always on" tech work is being pulled away from something else one enjoys. "Software development or nothing" seems like a really bizarre dichotomy.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#213

Post by 2sk21 »

notacoward wrote: post #212
dm319 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, how about finding something you enjoy / a team you enjoy working with and doing that instead? I mean 40 years is a long time, and what do you do then after? Nothing? Or browse HN all day? Or do a job that you enjoy?

I think you're kind of missing OP's point. No matter how enthusiastic you are at the beginning of your career, that field of things you enjoy and teams you enjoy working with is likely to narrow over time for a couple of reasons. Everything's more fun when it's new and you're learning fast, but less and less seems new as you gain experience. A lot of "new" things are obviously reincarnations of things you learned lon…

Thats exactly what I meant! I am in my 50s and I just retired after nearly 30 years in software development, much of it in cutting edge AI. As you say, after a while, you've seen everything and its not quite as interesting the second time around. I still enjoy coding and reading stuff, just not for a living. I get to do whatever I want which is a reward in of itself.

Knuth has a wonderful take on how he is spending his retirement that I find inspiring: https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/email.html

...my role is to be on the bottom of things. What I do takes long hours of studying and uninterruptible concentration. I try to learn certain areas of computer science exhaustively; then I try to digest that knowledge into a form that is accessible to people who don't have time for such study.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#214

Post by Viliam1234 »

eyjafjallajokul wrote: post #77
MattGaiser wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, by the way, it's December, so we need you to watch that 45 minute security training video again so you don't accept USB flash drives from strangers in the parking lot. The ability to mute a tab and have it run in the background is at times a beautiful thing.

Unless you work at Amazon where the training pauses if the tab isn’t actively focused. I’m convinced that it’s a form of torture.

> I’m convinced that it’s a form of torture.

Ten years later, you will nostalgically think about the good old trainings in 2020 when the web camera yet didn't watch your eyeballs and analyze your face expressions in order to determine whether you need to watch the training again.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#215

Post by ryanmarsh »

larrymyers wrote: post #5

It's interesting that the OP on reddit is describing normal company politics. It exists at every company I've ever worked at, and will exist anywhere there is money, power, and status at stake in the decision making process. My suggestion is to find a company where you can accept and work within that company's dysfunction, and stay put as long as you have a positive career path there. Every company is dysfunctional i…

It exists at every company I've ever worked at, and will exist anywhere there is money, power, and status at stake in the decision making process.

Status at stake, yes. Power? Power over what? Another “microservice”? And money, an extra 50% bonus maybe? That’s not “money”. Employees are getting rich absolutely nowhere. When real money is at stake you’d know. People get serious, quick.

I have a hypothesis that post-industrial-era management-as-a-profession is going to become such a disadvantage that 30 person companies with 28 ICs and 2 exec/founders are going to become the norm, upsetting companies many times their size.

Already half of white collar jobs could be automated with two weeks dev effort (per role). That assertion is based on hundreds of conversations with “business” people at my clients. You’d sadly not be surprised how many people forward emails or update spreadsheets for a living.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#216

Post by GoodJokes »

Makes one really wonder why there are so many self-important people on Hacker News. From reading the comments on that reddit post it sure seems that you all think your jobs are bs and don't work hard at all. Really just seems like you all just like money over building things that are important. I know broad strokes, but I really have a hard time "chuckling" at all the well-paid slackers. Does one really think you are any different than a bs manager/executive?

Re: I've walked away from software development

#217

Post by tharkun__ »

TravHatesMe wrote: post #193
treis wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So your solution is to just not give a shit like everyone else I'd say give a sustainable amount of shit directed at tasks rewarded by management. You shouldn't see your coworkers as different from you. They're just further along the path to enlightenment. The ending points of this path are effectively: (1) Finding work that you're passionate about and pays (2) Finding work that allows you to do something you're pas…

Interesting take. I appreciate the perspective. Maybe I just need a new work environment. I miss working with smart, driven people. Thanks for your thoughts, this is therapy for me.

I completely agree with the advice you got there and I'll add one thing on top.

I give a shit about what I do. I know my employer does not give a shit about me though. My advice: keep a timesheet!

It's amazing how much unpaid overtime people give their employers if the employer doesn't make you fill a timesheet. It's awesome to look at your own timesheet and see that you really really don't need to feel bad about stopping working at 2pm on Friday because even that still keeps you in overtime territory. It doesn't mean you don't give a shit. You gave it your everything while you did the work, you cared about the code you wrote and you still got way more done than the people sitting in the office for 60 hours a week while goofing off on Facebook. The whole WFH thing makes this much easier because you don't have to dread people's turning heads when you leave the office that early.

The other thing is "unlimited vacation". If you have that at your job, make sure you check how much vacation you are actually taking. Companies actually like unlimited vacation policies, which should be enough for you not to like them. People tend to take less vacation under such polociee. Nobody wants to be the one that took the most vacation for some reason and companies exploit that. So keep track and just take the amount you think you should take (within reasonable limits). E.g. 30 days a year is completely fine. If you work in technology in Germany then 30 days is very likely the amount you get, even if you are fresh out of university.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#218

Post by _y5hn »

giantg2 wrote: post #204
pavel_lishin wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't buy your way out of relationship problems unless you count hiring a divorce lawyer.

The only problem in the relationship is the financial aspect - being trapped at a job I hate to pay all the bills.

Try to find ways, even small ones, to dictate your own terms.

Try not doing everything for a while.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#219

Post by jacques_chester »

the-dude wrote: post #203
jacques_chester wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am old enough to remember ADD/ADHD did not exist. It existed, but it was undiagnosed and untreated.

I acknowledge that it existed : severe cases were known and described. But did it 'exist' at this scale? I don't think so.

I do think so.

Neurological understanding of ADHD has advanced enormously in the past few decades.

I'm touchy about this subject because it's hard not to take the implication personally that it's somehow a recent invention.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#220

Post by jacques_chester »

rootbear wrote: post #185
hasmolo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s a lot higher than you might expect but i don’t think it’s endemic to software at this point. there’s a bit of a cultural shift around mental disorders and the old stigma attached. i’ve seen a lot of people i know, from preschool teachers to principal scientists, get an ADD or ADHD diagnosis in their later years. the acknowledgment of a disability is much easier now. all of that said, the use of adderal, vyvanse,…

I was diagnosed with ADHD in my fifties! I'd known I likely had it for some years, but the formal diagnosis came late. Alas, none of the meds I tried worked, or they had unacceptable side-effects. So I mostly rely on monitoring my own behavior and trying to establish good habits. The results are mixed.

It's unfortunate you didn't have luck with medication. One thing to consider is asking your psychiatrist whether there are pharmaceutical trials you can join, one of those might be helpful.
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