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I've walked away from software development

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Re: I've walked away from software development

#141

Post by jacques_chester »

the-dude wrote: post #83
hasmolo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s a lot higher than you might expect but i don’t think it’s endemic to software at this point. there’s a bit of a cultural shift around mental disorders and the old stigma attached. i’ve seen a lot of people i know, from preschool teachers to principal scientists, get an ADD or ADHD diagnosis in their later years. the acknowledgment of a disability is much easier now. all of that said, the use of adderal, vyvanse,…

> the acknowledgment of a disability is much easier now. Are you saying a significant part of human kind has been disabled for the past couple of thousand years and we are only now acknowledging this? I am old enough to remember ADD/ADHD did not exist. We were outside a lot.

> I am old enough to remember ADD/ADHD did not exist.

It existed, but it was undiagnosed and untreated.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#142

Post by burnthrow »

giantg2 wrote: post #44

Well said. I'm rotting from the inside out. The only problem I have with the post is that they have the luxury of quitting. People like myself are trapped in the job. They're likely making 5x many people's salary if they are a principle engineer at a large tech firm. I dream of quitting everyday, but I know I have to deal with this job for the next 2 decades at least (about 9 years in). I'm miserable and know I'm was…

> about 9 years in

I'm personally offended.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#143

Post by jacques_chester »

mmcgaha wrote: post #34
jpmattia wrote: post #18

In the middle of the rant on burnout, he says: > I'm sick of everyone being on Adderall. Is that really a thing? ie What proportion of software folks are using it?

The addreall comment blew me away too. When did smart people start taking PEDs? My guess is that software development is a field where it is more common for folks with the ADHD hyperfocus to excel, but if there is a problem brewing it should be addressed.

> When did smart people start taking PEDs?

When did ill people start taking antibiotics?

> My guess is that software development is a field where it is more common for folks with the ADHD hyperfocus to excel

Your guess isn't quite right. Hyperfocus is not something that can be turned on and off, and the subject of hyperfocus is not chosen at will. It's a symptom that demonstrates that "attention deficit" is an unfortunate misnomer. The problem in ADHD is not a lack of attention, it is reduced ability to govern attention.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#144

Post by giantg2 »

burnthrow wrote: post #142
giantg2 wrote: post #44

Well said. I'm rotting from the inside out. The only problem I have with the post is that they have the luxury of quitting. People like myself are trapped in the job. They're likely making 5x many people's salary if they are a principle engineer at a large tech firm. I dream of quitting everyday, but I know I have to deal with this job for the next 2 decades at least (about 9 years in). I'm miserable and know I'm was…

> about 9 years in I'm personally offended.

Why?

I've had my job outsourced, been subjected to office politics, been passed/screwed over for promotions, seen the company violate its own rules to my detriment, etc ect.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#145

Post by giantg2 »

Infinitesimus wrote: post #133
giantg2 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do county taxes have to do with anything?

They were probably talking about the places where some counties have their own tax imposed ( like SF ) so you pay a lot of money for the privilege of living there so taking a lower paying job gets hard unless you leave. I could be wrong tho.

I have county property tax in PA too. It's only about $500 per year. Maybe they mean school property tax, or their area combines them? The school tax for me is about $3700. I could see that getting astronomical if the house is big enough.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#146

Post by jacques_chester »

hasmolo wrote: post #29
jpmattia wrote: post #18

In the middle of the rant on burnout, he says: > I'm sick of everyone being on Adderall. Is that really a thing? ie What proportion of software folks are using it?

it’s a lot higher than you might expect but i don’t think it’s endemic to software at this point. there’s a bit of a cultural shift around mental disorders and the old stigma attached. i’ve seen a lot of people i know, from preschool teachers to principal scientists, get an ADD or ADHD diagnosis in their later years. the acknowledgment of a disability is much easier now. all of that said, the use of adderal, vyvanse,…

I was diagnosed at 32. Ritalin has been life changing.

Continuing medication is not really "carrying a habit forward".

A major shift in thinking in the last 15 years is to realise that ADHD is not a juvenile condition. It lasts into adulthood, but the symptoms change because the brain has changed and because of acquired coping mechanisms.

"Adult ADHD" is just ... ADHD. The medications continue to be a useful treatment.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#147

Post by bradlys »

bestinterest wrote: post #122
siberianbear wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^ Yeah, this. I socked away and invested everything I could during my career in Silicon Valley. I retired just a few months after my fortieth birthday. Why most of my colleagues didn't do the same and instead 'leveled up' their lifestyle to match their income is beyond my capacity to understand.

I thought about this but its all about balance, money spent in your 20s and 30s is more valuable than in your 40s. That doesn't mean don't save at all just be balanced with a slight tilt towards saving more.

Most of the people doing FIRE are not the types who spend money on expensive stuff. If they were, they’d be doing fat FIRE (uncommon). Most people doing FIRE do not have high standards of living. If they did, it’d run somewhat counter to FIRE. The people who can do fat fire are just lucky and got rich and should be ignored promptly.

There is also the problem that many bought real estate far before it was as fiendishly expensive as it is now, bought stocks and were part of companies during wild bull runs, and act like you can reproduce their success trivially. (You can’t)

Also, I think of spending in your youth as an investment in memories. What is the point of getting all your best trips in at 65 (just before dementia sets in) when you have at best 30 years to enjoy them. If you did the trips when you’re 30, you’d have decades more to enjoy them and could actually go on them. Living for when you’re senile is a scam.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#148

Post by tartoran »

cylon13 wrote: post #130
giantg2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really handcuffs. You make a ton of money and move to a lower cost area to work on whatever you want. Financial independence removes way more restrictions than actually requiring a paycheck to live. Even if you stay at the company, just knowing that you have the money to say screw it and do what you want is empowering - Oh, you're going to fire me if I don't do xyz, go ahead because I don't need the job.

I'm pretty sure ageism in tech boils down to this point. People who have been in the industry longer have better nest eggs and can simply leave at any point, so they won't crunch for you.

Absolutely

Re: I've walked away from software development

#149

Post by TravHatesMe »

treis wrote: post #123
TravHatesMe wrote: post #38

This really resonates with me. I'm becoming jaded as well. My most hated thing about the industry: the amount of people who do not give a shit. These people try to do the least amount of work possible. They actively try to stretch a day's worth of work into a month. They do not want to learn anything, even on the company's dime. They have zero passion and pride. Often they are vicious; they will act so kind and diplo…

>My most hated thing about the industry: the amount of people who do not give a shit. This is why they're not burned out. And IMHO, this sounds a lot like sour grapes. To be rewarded for good work your management needs to know you're doing good work. For them to know you're doing good work you need to tell them. This is just a basic fact of life. And it's not super hard. You just need to maintain a relationship with…

> This is why they're not burned out.

So your solution is to just not give a shit like everyone else? The reason that I've become so good at my craft is by giving a shit. The reason that my projects always succeed is because I give a shit. Not giving a shit puts a ceiling on your career as a developer. Not giving a shit will prevent you from learning. The irony in my situation is that I am investing in myself by doing the work, I am learning and improving myself while others stagnate. I try to remind myself of that.

> And IMHO, this sounds a lot like sour grapes. To be rewarded for good work your management needs to know you're doing good work. For them to know you're doing good work you need to tell them. This is just a basic fact of life. And it's not super hard. You just need to maintain a relationship with your boss and ideally your boss's boss.

Sour grapes? Only one or two sentences complained about recognition. I'm talking generally about the majority of developers at big orgs. Deal with management? I work in a global org that already has plenty of communication issues, people don't want to be bothered. Moreover I don't want to deal with politics as I am a long-term contractor. I try to remind myself that I just need to bill my hours and forget about it, but I'm essentially treated as an employee and my insane efforts carry a team of 8 people (including other contractors) that literally do nothing while reaping the pay and recognition. They run mouse movers all day and enjoy their paid staycations. "Spend the budget" -- since I provide 10x the value then give me 10x the pay, the other guys are doing nothing while it's expected that I work my ass off. A manager that I befriended once told me "yeah that's usually how it goes, team of 8 but one or two guys do all the work. typical" How is this acceptable? If I give up like the others then I am no better, I become the person I despise and I contribute to the horrible culture that has taken over the industry in big orgs.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#150

Post by dorkwood »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #94
eyjafjallajokul wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you work at Amazon where the training pauses if the tab isn’t actively focused. I’m convinced that it’s a form of torture.

We have that too. A second computer works wonders here. Worse is the training I'm doing now which lets you run it in the background but makes you push a button every 30s to continue the training.

Up next: a training video that turns on your webcam and pauses if you look away from the screen.
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