Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I've walked away from software development

old.reddit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 237 posts

Re: I've walked away from software development

#171

Post by soco »

moron4hire wrote: post #67
johncena33 wrote: post #22

> I'm sick of wasting time writing worthless tests. I'm sick of fixing more tests than bugs. I think as an industry we need to look at tests, particularly unit tests, and Test Driven Development (TDD) through critical lens. Writing unit tests is seen as a virtue while in reality how much value an individual unit test adds given the cost of writing, running and maintaining unit tests. What baffles me the most is TDD.…

TDD only works when you're building something to a pre-defined spec. But so much of what we do has no spec, or a spec that is constantly in flux. Add on to that the fact that anything we would need that does follow a strict specification is probably already implemented, there ends up being very little need for TDD in the wild. It's great if you need it, but few people actually need it.

Still, if you start your day building one thing, I strongly assume you know what you're going to build that day. And you start with writing a test to confirm you actually built at the end of the day the thing you planned. Will you keep that test? Maybe yes, maybe not, but you got your confirmation at the end of the day. This is TDD for me.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#172

Post by apohn »

swozey wrote: post #8
linuxftw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it was a bad year to make the jump. The normal sales job (from a non-sales person POV anyway) seems to be business class travel, eating the finest foods, drinking the finest booze, going out and entertaining the engineers for stuff they were going to buy anyway, and then cashing big checks.

Yeah, started right before the pandi, was 60% travel but before I ever got to travel we went into lock down and it became 100% zoom. I'm curious if being in person would have helped me, though. I'm not sure how much it it was zoom exacerbating my anxieties or my own anxieties/introversion burning me out. (or the terrible company) edit: I was a PSE not really tech sales, I did have to do engineering and got the hard t…

> I did have to do engineering and got the hard technical questions all day long. It's not your run of the mill sales job, the sales person used me as their tech arm. It was mentally exhausting.

I had a role similar to what you are describing at one point. I got to the point where I was basically mentally exhausted and short-tempered all the time. I had a lot of in-person meetings and strongly preferred web meetings. With web meetings you only put on your game face for the length of the meeting. With in-person meetings you travel to, you need to put on your game face for much longer, including before and after the actual meetings.

IMO the way to not destroy yourself in PSE roles is to basically be the type of person who is okay with having a very superficial technical understanding of the wide range of things you see at customers. Otherwise there are an infinite number of technical things you can become an expert on, and other people in your team and sales people will absolutely crush you under the weight of all the different questions your customers have.

At least for me, I was an technical expert in a bunch of enterprise level technologies and duct tape stuff that basically translated into nothing if I moved a bit out of the software I was responsible for. Some people are okay with that. I was not and it really crushed my mental state after a few years.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#173

Post by TheCoelacanth »

linuxftw wrote: post #6
swozey wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried that this year and failed miserably. I don't know how it is at other places but I sat on zoom 6-10 hours a day with new clients giving them architecture pre-sales guidance and I have never had a week of work burn me out so much. I had no energy to talk to anyone after work, including my partner. It turned into me dreading going to sleep because at 8am I had to sit on zoom and try to summon all of my charisma…

Maybe it was a bad year to make the jump. The normal sales job (from a non-sales person POV anyway) seems to be business class travel, eating the finest foods, drinking the finest booze, going out and entertaining the engineers for stuff they were going to buy anyway, and then cashing big checks.

That would probably be nice once in a while, but doing it all the time sounds horrible.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#174

Post by apohn »

Demonsult wrote: post #2

I went into tech sales as my exit. It feels like a highly paid vacation compared to SWE.

Tech sales works if the company you are working for has a good product that sells and a good sales culture. Lots of people are in software sales jobs that are basically just dealing with internal sales politics and customer politics to get somebody to make a decision to buy something based on "vision", not really product merit.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#175

Post by giantg2 »

maximente wrote: post #155
giantg2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm the kind of person who takes the most important unclaimed tasks - which are often unclaimed because they're unpleasant." I feel you. I've always been one to fill the gaps on the team. You need someone to learn this new tech/process/etc - sure, I'll do it. It's hurt my career. Now I'm 9 years in and I'm not an expert in anything (anything that matters - they outsourced the tech/system I was an expert at), just av…

being able and willing to learn new things is one of the most attractive qualities for candidates when we are hiring. we try not to execute on that in the sense of rewrite it every 6 months, but it is typically a signal for individuals who possess some level of humility, patience, willingness to get trained up, struggle a little bit, etc. - all very important things for technical staff.

But is that rewarded in compensation?

Of course a candidate's flexibility is attractive, but it doesn't seem to be appreciated once they turn into an employee.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#176

Post by giantg2 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #158
giantg2 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to know where these good jobs/companies are. I work for a company that is consistently highly rated as a best place to work in IT by Computer World. I hate it. They don't even follow their own policies.

Is that in Germany?

USA

Re: I've walked away from software development

#177

Post by giantg2 »

bradlys wrote: post #167
giantg2 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I've had my job outsourced, been subjected to office politics, been passed/screwed over for promotions, seen the company violate its own rules to my detriment, etc ect.

> I've had my job outsourced, been subjected to office politics, been passed/screwed over for promotions, seen the company violate its own rules to my detriment, etc ect. I mean, I've seen all those too and that was only like 2-3 years in. So? It's normal workplace behavior. I think most of us are just upset with capitalism, tbh.

I don't have a problem with capitalism. I just just hate the at-will employment. You sign a "contract" that basically says the company can make all the rules and change them anytime without notice.

"It's normal workplace behavior."

It sucks to see that you don't care at all about integrity.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#178

Post by pavel_lishin »

giantg2 wrote: post #75
ravenstine wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how exactly you're trapped. Do you have any dependents? I'd understand in that case but, if you were single or unmarried, then I would argue that you aren't trapped at all.

Yep, wife and kid. Wife won't contribute financially and refuses to move to a lower cost area. She also complains about our 1800sqft house being too small. Not sure how I ended up in such a bad situation... oh wait, it all changed once we got married. Damn legal documents.

It doesn't seem like your job is your primary problem, tbh. You should consider couples' counseling. Or even just seeing a therapist solo.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#179

Post by giantg2 »

burnthrow wrote: post #160
giantg2 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I've had my job outsourced, been subjected to office politics, been passed/screwed over for promotions, seen the company violate its own rules to my detriment, etc ect.

Need way more than 9 years for it to really get into your bones and fuck with your head

I don't think you can reliably stereotype like that.

I'm completely fucked. I'm basically on bad day away from ghosting my job and living off the dime of you working people.

Re: I've walked away from software development

#180

Post by apohn »

linuxftw wrote: post #6
swozey wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried that this year and failed miserably. I don't know how it is at other places but I sat on zoom 6-10 hours a day with new clients giving them architecture pre-sales guidance and I have never had a week of work burn me out so much. I had no energy to talk to anyone after work, including my partner. It turned into me dreading going to sleep because at 8am I had to sit on zoom and try to summon all of my charisma…

Maybe it was a bad year to make the jump. The normal sales job (from a non-sales person POV anyway) seems to be business class travel, eating the finest foods, drinking the finest booze, going out and entertaining the engineers for stuff they were going to buy anyway, and then cashing big checks.

And to people outside of Engineering, SWEs have flexible hours, can work from home, are paid really well, can take breaks whenever they want, can actually go on vacation without constantly checking their email, and can switch jobs easily.

Sure, some SWEs at are making $500K a year, work 2 hours a day, and get their underwear washed with free laundry service.

Some sales people have a royal life that they pay for by traveling like crazy and working crazy hours to deal with internal and customer politics. But a lot of sales people don't have unlimited expense accounts and their job is a slog to try and convince people to take a second meeting and buy something at some point.

Post reply on HN