Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles • Hacker News Board

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#101

Post by slothtrop » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

mike_d wrote: post #53

snikeris wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first line of treatment is CBT-I.

CBT-I is psychotherapy targeted at treating one specific cause of insomnia. It does not address any of the physical ailments that may also lead to sleep disorders. If you aren't careful, you'll lose your internet medical license with such bold medically unsound claims.

CBTi is generally effective, and "physical ailments" are not generally suspect in the case of insomnia. You can get checked for ailments such as sleep apnea anyhow and CBTi doesn't somehow jeopardize that. It's not like it has to be either or.

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#102

Post by sradman » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

zamfi wrote: post #97

sradman wrote: post #32

From the paper Chi3l1/YKL-40 is controlled by the astrocyte circadian clock and regulates neuroinflammation and Alzheimer’s disease pathogenesis [1]: > Regulation of glial activation and neuroinflammation are critical factors in the pathogenesis of Alzheimer’s disease (AD). YKL-40, a primarily astrocytic protein encoded by the gene Chi3l1, is a widely studied cerebrospinal fluid biomarker that increases with aging an…

> We further observed that expression of Chi3l1 is regulated by the circadian clock, as deletion of the core clock proteins BMAL1 or CLOCK/NPAS2 strongly suppresses basal Chi3l1 expression, whereas deletion of the negative clock regulators PER1/PER2 increased Chi3l1 expression. Basal Chi3l1 mRNA was nonrhythmic because of a long mRNA half-life in astrocytes. However, inflammatory induction of Chi3l1 was gated by the…

They use CRISPR/Cas9 [1] techniques on animal models, mice in this case. They knock out the gene that transcribes the protein in question and observe the impact in the lab.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#103

Post by slothtrop » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

solids wrote: post #59

rtx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we have it backwards, the problem is going to sleep late.

The problem is not listening to our body requests. If you are tired, you should you sleep, and then avoid alarms to wake up.

The problem with avoiding alarms is that perpetually sleeping in will shift forward your circadian rhythm.

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#104

Post by t-writescode » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

nescioquid wrote: post #100

t-writescode wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s as if the millions of people with insomnia all cried out all at once and condemned this post.

People who seek treatment for insomnia are often told to institute some form of sleep hygiene. My immediate thought was the comment was made by someone who found the advice worked for him/her.

My immediate thought was it was someone that looks at the clock at 11:30 and goes "alright, it's time to go to bed" and goes to bed, even if they're really enjoying that video game or whatever and that they think it's that easy to sleep, afterward.

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#105

Post by eecks » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 9:57 PM UTC

oarabbus_ wrote: post #84

What does this mean for people with severe Delayed Phase Sleep Syndrome (DSPS)? I do not feel the need for sleep until usually about 2am, and I find it exceedingly difficult to wake up before 10am. And yes, it's made it extremely difficult to live a "normal" life like your typical person who can wake up at 7am without issue. It's been a problem with relationships, poor performance in school, issues in promotions and…

I wasn't diagnosed with this but I had the symptoms and the consequences you mentioned.

It took a long time to fix. Here's some things I tried. Some may have helped or none may have helped.

* I bought blackout blinds and use a sleeping mask (sometimes earplugs)

* I bought a bright light (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FFJYMVS) and a smart plug. 15 mins before I wanted to wake up I would have a timer turn on the light.

* I eat healthier in all regards

* I started working out

* I started walking a lot more

* I stop drinking coffee at 11am (and drink tea after that)

* I stopped some doing some things late at night (after 23:30) (gaming, programming, eating, using my phone)

* I started listening to audiobooks

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#106

Post by rriepe » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

oarabbus_ wrote: post #84

What does this mean for people with severe Delayed Phase Sleep Syndrome (DSPS)? I do not feel the need for sleep until usually about 2am, and I find it exceedingly difficult to wake up before 10am. And yes, it's made it extremely difficult to live a "normal" life like your typical person who can wake up at 7am without issue. It's been a problem with relationships, poor performance in school, issues in promotions and…

Have you tried biphasic sleep? A cycle with one 2-7am sleep and a significant afternoon sleep (don't call it a nap-- at least 90 minutes) would get you enough sleep. It's easier to carve out that 90 minutes than it is to change all the things you need to change to shift your natural cycle.

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#107

Post by PragmaticPulp » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 10:02 PM UTC

James_Henry wrote: post #44

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I sleep LESS (5, 6 hours) I feel better. More energy, lighter on my feet, less depressed. This is a well-known phenomenon, believe it or not. Acute sleep deprivation has a strong anti-depressant effect in people suffering from depression. It can even trigger hypomanic or manic episodes in people who have bipolar disorder. Scientific American wrote a nice article about it several years ago: https://www.scientific…

In studies on wake therapy I've seen, there is a percentage that have long-lasting positive improvement from just one night of sleep deprivation.

Long lasting improvement compared to a control group?

Depression studies are basically useless without a control group. In any given depression cohort, a number of patients will spontaneously improve even if they receive placebo or no treatment at all. For many (lucky) people, depressive episodes simply resolve after some time, so capturing them in studies without control groups can produce misleading results.

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#108

Post by rriepe » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 10:04 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14

Brajeshwar wrote: post #4

I'm currently reading the book, "Why We Sleep (Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams)" right now and I'm stunned by all the new things we ignored when it comes to sleep. There are so many fascinating aspects of our life and body, all governed by Sleep. I highly suggest reading the book to explore more about your sleep.

It's a great book for emphasizing the importance of sleep. The author's desired outcome is to get people interested in healthy sleep habits, and he hits a home run in that regard. However, take some of the science positions in the book with a grain of salt. The author is notorious for being directionally correct in his opinions, but exaggerating a lot of the science for dramatic effect. This doesn't matter at all if…

I read it less as exaggeration and more as... art? The book is really well-written. It emphasizes things with a rhetorical tone that I thought was completely appropriate given how much our culture abuses sleep.

He also specifically and thoroughly goes over the sleep window thing, unless I'm remembering another book.

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#109

Post by temp43t453 » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 10:15 PM UTC

oarabbus_ wrote: post #84

What does this mean for people with severe Delayed Phase Sleep Syndrome (DSPS)? I do not feel the need for sleep until usually about 2am, and I find it exceedingly difficult to wake up before 10am. And yes, it's made it extremely difficult to live a "normal" life like your typical person who can wake up at 7am without issue. It's been a problem with relationships, poor performance in school, issues in promotions and…

if you could allow yourself to get 4 hours of sleep at midday (14-15 to 18-19) then do it, and go to sleep at 2-3 am for the other, longer part

Re: Biomarker of Alzheimer's found to be regulated by sleep cycles

#110

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 10:21 PM UTC

sradman wrote: post #32

From the paper Chi3l1/YKL-40 is controlled by the astrocyte circadian clock and regulates neuroinflammation and Alzheimer’s disease pathogenesis [1]: > Regulation of glial activation and neuroinflammation are critical factors in the pathogenesis of Alzheimer’s disease (AD). YKL-40, a primarily astrocytic protein encoded by the gene Chi3l1, is a widely studied cerebrospinal fluid biomarker that increases with aging an…

[deleted]