Tensions in Google's ethical AI group increase as it sends demands to CEO

Post by kaiju0 » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

igorkraw wrote: post #282

I find it sad that a good chunk of HN seems to just go with the "she's a toxic person" narrative without ever relaying what she actually DID. Ironically, the self identified "anti-SJW" are cancelling her by complaining about her "toxicity" and "attempts to cancel people" in vague terms. I also find it sad that apparently, freedom of speech and free actions end when it comes to criticizing your employer in public, sho…

Post by pron » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

coward8675309 wrote: post #298

pron wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that the company's values or behaviour have changed, but, more importantly, the decision to work at a company is mutual: both sides want it (the company expects the value an employee will bring exceeds the cost of their employment; hiring someone is not a charity), and they enter into this relationship when neither side knows everything about the other, certainly not how they would behave in the future.…

I don't disagree with you. I was at an adtech startup, and I had bright lines — no payday loans or for-profit education. Luckily we never needed to blur or cross those lines, but as our business evolved, the way I delivered my — and my colleagues delivered their— preferences was not through laying down ultimatums but by having conversations. Some people seem intent on creating drama and casting things not as their pr…

Post by Majestic121 » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

pron wrote: post #299

twcz wrote: post #288

I can't say I feel for Google, they've had it coming. A completely self-inflicted wound. What worries me is the woke culture creeping over from Google to other companies, and from US to other countries . Demanding vice-presidents be fired, taking over companies like a virus. But how can the virus stay alive while killing its hosts so vehemently? What will sustain it long-term?

> But how can the virus stay alive while killing its hosts so vehemently? Comparing a company to a host and the employees that create its wealth to a virus is illogical even for the most ardent capitalist. Isn't the capitalist idea that everyone, be it the employer or the worker, do their utmost to maximise their market value and use it to the best of their ability to their own advantage? Even the ancien régime reali…

Post by JamesBarney » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

throwaway201606 wrote: post #163

motohagiography wrote: post #110

This issue reminds me a lot of what we do in security and privacy, which are ostensibly engineering disciplines, but are really technology governance functions. Ethical AI is also a governance function, and like hackers in security, there is an invisible yet stark limit to the value activists can provide in actual governance roles. Litigating demands is just not how governance gets done. The irony of Google hiring so…

I wish I had more upvotes to give for this comment. It gave me multiple upsights about how to clean up my approach thinking about the issues here: + framing an analogy using technology governance functions - whose functions and values can be clearly quantified and measured by many independently - with a ethical (moral) functions - whose values and results are much more nebulous + drawing a parallel between hackers -…

Post by g42gregory » Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

pron wrote: post #299

twcz wrote: post #288

I can't say I feel for Google, they've had it coming. A completely self-inflicted wound. What worries me is the woke culture creeping over from Google to other companies, and from US to other countries . Demanding vice-presidents be fired, taking over companies like a virus. But how can the virus stay alive while killing its hosts so vehemently? What will sustain it long-term?

> But how can the virus stay alive while killing its hosts so vehemently? Comparing a company to a host and the employees that create its wealth to a virus is illogical even for the most ardent capitalist. Isn't the capitalist idea that everyone, be it the employer or the worker, do their utmost to maximise their market value and use it to the best of their ability to their own advantage? Even the ancien régime reali…