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Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

bbc.com

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Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#41

Post by cygx »

Izkata wrote: post #27
jgwil2 wrote: post #14

I saw a picture of people in a subway car in Stockholm earlier this month and 90% were maskless. The no-lockdown approach shows a fundamental lack of seriousness that filters down to everyone. In the United States we see this phenomenon just as clearly in Republican-led states.

> just as clearly in Republican-led states. They aren't doing any worse than Democrat-led states though, so no idea how you can say this.

Covid dynamics in red and blue states are different, see eg https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Brill-10_20-2... [1]

Blue states were hit early on. Case numbers in red states caught up at the beginning of Aug, hospitalization numbers at the beginning of Oct.

I'd be interested in the cumulated death rate as of today (but not so much so to calculated it myself...)

[1] https://www.aei.org/economics/impact-of-the-coronavirus-pand...

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#42

Post by pwinnski »

brigandish wrote: post #24

Not only is it probably too early to judge any country's response properly, I wonder how far his expertise, or even just his reasoning, enables him to make a judgement worth listening to. It's worth keeping in mind that the BBC likes to play the journalistic game of "holding the government to account", which really means they will support a kind of response (lockdowns) tacitly while criticising the government for any…

Life comes at you fast, so articles from 2.5 months ago, as the Spectator article is, aren't much more helpful than articles from 6.5 months ago, as the Spiked article is.

To the point in the Spectator piece, though, it could easily be argued that the US is similarly incapable of imposing real lockdowns, for both legal and cultural reasons.

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#43

Post by throw20201217 »

leokennis wrote: post #39
libertine wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's maybe time to EU to follow through and admit that both EU and individual countries approaches were a disgrace that costed, and will cost, too many lives.

Wait...what would have been the better approach then?

Utilise the awesome powers of hindsight and backseat driving?

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#44

Post by libertine »

leokennis wrote: post #39
libertine wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's maybe time to EU to follow through and admit that both EU and individual countries approaches were a disgrace that costed, and will cost, too many lives.

Wait...what would have been the better approach then?

Well clearly something has failed when some countries have the pandemic under control for months now, and EU is riding waves.

Or we want to ignore success cases? Because neither the media or governance talks about it, don't even mention that are countries in economic recovery and they match countries that have the pandemic under control.

It's like living with the virus is bad for the economy.

I think a big part of it was public discourse, some faced this pandemic has a battle that must be won, others took it has an inconvenience. This second group, the majority, then went on to face issues like individual rights crises that resemble something like everyone is entitled to their RIGHTS, but somehow they forgot about DUTY and RESPONSABILITIES.

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#45

Post by libertine »

throw20201217 wrote: post #43
leokennis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait...what would have been the better approach then?

Utilise the awesome powers of hindsight and backseat driving?

Because there isn't any good example in the past year?

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#46

Post by rasz »

lsllc wrote: post #38
ruslanbogan wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge amount of people in care homes died of covid because the government neglected to handle the situation properly according to a Swedish inquiry https://www.ft.com/content/e66b2d2b-aa70-4866-a9cb-2cd095f4f...

The same thing happened in the US North East, NY, MA, CT, NJ -- the majority (e.g. over 2/3) of deaths are in long term care homes. That is the problem to solve, lockdown or not, in most countries we have utterly failed to protect our most vulnerable people. In fact I'd go as far as arguing that lockdowns and restrictions for the general population have diverted attention and effort from protecting the LTC homes & th…

No, Swedes didnt send infected seniors back to Nursing Homes like Cuomo.

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-new-york-andrew-cu...

"March 25 order that sent thousands of recovering COVID-19 patients from hospitals into nursing homes at the height of the pandemic."

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#47

Post by Svip »

kzrdude wrote: post #9
Svip wrote: post #4

I think it shouldn't be understated the significance of this. It is extremely rare for a constitutional monarch to so publicly undermine the democratically elected government. The Danish Queen and Norwegian King made speeches this Spring, where they were very careful to not undermine the government's strategy, but rather emphasis the significance of the pandemic. Additionally, in Sweden, it is has become pretty recog…

You say that the prime minister is to blame, but the King doesn't say so explicitly, and I point this out because in Sweden's media climate it is for some reason not obvious that the PM is to blame when it all falls short. Because they (the PM and cabinet and the health authority) name their own factors and institutions that they blame. I think the PM should take responsibility, so evidently say you, but unfortunatel…

You are correct, that the King is not explicit in this, he cannot be, he's a constitutional monarch. However, the subtly is thick, and it's not hard to read between the lines, that he is thinking the government of Sweden has failed Sweden. He represents the government of Sweden, and when he is indirectly apologising, that's the statement he is making.

And who is liable for the government in the end? Prime Minister Löfven. I think it's hard to read anything else between the lines here.

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#48

Post by leereeves »

Svip wrote: post #47
kzrdude wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that the prime minister is to blame, but the King doesn't say so explicitly, and I point this out because in Sweden's media climate it is for some reason not obvious that the PM is to blame when it all falls short. Because they (the PM and cabinet and the health authority) name their own factors and institutions that they blame. I think the PM should take responsibility, so evidently say you, but unfortunatel…

You are correct, that the King is not explicit in this, he cannot be, he's a constitutional monarch. However, the subtly is thick, and it's not hard to read between the lines, that he is thinking the government of Sweden has failed Sweden. He represents the government of Sweden, and when he is indirectly apologising, that's the statement he is making. And who is liable for the government in the end? Prime Minister Lö…

Even assuming that's true, why should anyone care? Why would someone's family line give their opinion about the coronavirus approach more value than anyone else's?

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#49

Post by distracted_boy »

I just want to highlight the fact that our beloved King made this comment after Mats Melin, leader of the corona commission[1], said that we have failed protecting our elderly which was top priority [2]. The reason for this according to Mats, is because institutional and structural flaws in our geriatric care system. These flaws made it impossible to prepare and manage the pandemic. In addition to these flaws, Mats also says that counter measures set in place during the year was either too late or too little. Furthermore, Mats says very clearly and explicitly that the responsibility of the institutional and structural flaws in our geriatric care is shared between the government, administrative authorities (gov. agencies), counties and private sector. Even so, the current government (and previous governments) has been well aware of the flaws and the utmost responsibility lies with them.

I believe more could have been done, but solely blaming our prime minister is just irrational. For example, the local government in the three biggest regions, Skåne Stockholm and Västra Götaland, made the decision to cut down on the items in their pandemic storage area[3]. Guess what happened when nurses and doctors were asking for more supplies.

There are of course other instances where politicians prioritized money over health, which had a negative impact on people's lives, which covid-19 only made worse.

Also, it's my opinion that people in Sweden have largely ignored the restrictions. I base this on the fact that walking to the store to buy food, I'm the only one wearing a mask and trying to keep a distance. Friends and colleagues report the same. The fact that IKEA (where I live) was packed with people suggest that people don't care.

[1] https://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2020/06/mats-meli...

[2] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/coronakommissionen-missly...

[3] https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&arti...

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#50

Post by kzrdude »

leereeves wrote: post #48
Svip wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct, that the King is not explicit in this, he cannot be, he's a constitutional monarch. However, the subtly is thick, and it's not hard to read between the lines, that he is thinking the government of Sweden has failed Sweden. He represents the government of Sweden, and when he is indirectly apologising, that's the statement he is making. And who is liable for the government in the end? Prime Minister Lö…

Even assuming that's true, why should anyone care? Why would someone's family line give their opinion about the coronavirus approach more value than anyone else's?

If you get a job, then it doesn't matter who your family is or if you're the best person for the job(!). If you are lead architect of your company, your job is to give directions etc.

Same thing here. Doesn't matter there's others that could replace the king is his job.. he's the current one with that job, so we listen in a way that takes his position into account.

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