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Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

bbc.com

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Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#11

Post by gspr »

prox wrote: post #8
davrosthedalek wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not defending Monarchy in any way, but it's his job to care about the Swedish populace. That he hasn't been elected to this position doesn't mean that he does not fulfill his job, so I would assume that at least he is better informed than the random person on the street.

He is technically the head of state, which means that he probably speaks for the government in some way or form.

> He is technically the head of state, which means that he probably speaks for the government in some way or form.

That would be the job of the head of government, i.e. PM Löfven in this case.

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#12

Post by learc83 »

taeric wrote: post #5

I don't get the criticism of the guidance being "voluntary". The bigger question is more in compliance, no? That is, if they have compliance rates that are comparable to the countries that do have legal recourse, do we have reason to think legal recourse would have gotten them better compliance?

If you're talking about wearing masks in public, it looks like their numbers are low--implying that voluntary compliance isn't working great.

For an example, I was driving through rural Alabama, which has a state wide mask mandate, and at every convivence store I stopped in, everyone was masked. Right next door in Georgia, which has the opposite of statewide mask mandate (the governor made local mandates illegal), almost no one was masking.

The same is true for my home county. There's a mask mandate--everyone wears a mask. Move one county over--no mandate and almost no masks.

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#13

Post by elliekelly »

taeric wrote: post #5

I don't get the criticism of the guidance being "voluntary". The bigger question is more in compliance, no? That is, if they have compliance rates that are comparable to the countries that do have legal recourse, do we have reason to think legal recourse would have gotten them better compliance?

This Yale study[1] collected data from every county in the US about which restrictions were in place and then tracked how many people got sick. Their data[2] distinguishes between “mask mandate” and a “mask recommendation” and the study author is quoted that the recommendation “doesn’t do anything”. Of course this is all US data so I’m not sure whether or to what extent it would apply to Sweden’s compliance with a mask recommendation vs mandate.

[1]https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/study-shows-which-res...

[2]https://som.yale.edu/covid-restrictions

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#14

Post by jgwil2 »

I saw a picture of people in a subway car in Stockholm earlier this month and 90% were maskless. The no-lockdown approach shows a fundamental lack of seriousness that filters down to everyone. In the United States we see this phenomenon just as clearly in Republican-led states.

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#15

Post by libertine »

Svip wrote: post #4

I think it shouldn't be understated the significance of this. It is extremely rare for a constitutional monarch to so publicly undermine the democratically elected government. The Danish Queen and Norwegian King made speeches this Spring, where they were very careful to not undermine the government's strategy, but rather emphasis the significance of the pandemic. Additionally, in Sweden, it is has become pretty recog…

It's maybe time to EU to follow through and admit that both EU and individual countries approaches were a disgrace that costed, and will cost, too many lives.

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#16

Post by RobertoG »

ginko wrote: post #3

I don't see how the Swedish king's opinion on this has any more weight than asking a random person on the street.

A king is normally the head of state (1), so it would be the equivalent to the president of a country denouncing the the strategy of the government (and with it criticizing the head of government).

The main difference between a king and a president is that, with a president, if he/she is corrupt or incompetent you can remove it. With a monarch your are stuck for life.

In my opinion, the greatest virtue of democracy is not the power to choose who govern you, but the power to remove it from power peacefully. Historically that is pretty remarkable. Of course, in the case of Sweden, the king has a very limited power. The point is, it's not a random person.

(1) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Sweden

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#17

Post by ruslanbogan »

kzrdude wrote: post #9
Svip wrote: post #4

I think it shouldn't be understated the significance of this. It is extremely rare for a constitutional monarch to so publicly undermine the democratically elected government. The Danish Queen and Norwegian King made speeches this Spring, where they were very careful to not undermine the government's strategy, but rather emphasis the significance of the pandemic. Additionally, in Sweden, it is has become pretty recog…

You say that the prime minister is to blame, but the King doesn't say so explicitly, and I point this out because in Sweden's media climate it is for some reason not obvious that the PM is to blame when it all falls short. Because they (the PM and cabinet and the health authority) name their own factors and institutions that they blame. I think the PM should take responsibility, so evidently say you, but unfortunatel…

It is a very unswedish thing to point the finger and blame someone from what I can tell, the best you will get is "not my fault"

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#18

Post by prox »

gspr wrote: post #11
prox wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is technically the head of state, which means that he probably speaks for the government in some way or form.

> He is technically the head of state, which means that he probably speaks for the government in some way or form. That would be the job of the head of government , i.e. PM Löfven in this case.

Ah ok! So they are politically separate.

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#19

Post by bzb6 »

learc83 wrote: post #12
taeric wrote: post #5

I don't get the criticism of the guidance being "voluntary". The bigger question is more in compliance, no? That is, if they have compliance rates that are comparable to the countries that do have legal recourse, do we have reason to think legal recourse would have gotten them better compliance?

If you're talking about wearing masks in public, it looks like their numbers are low--implying that voluntary compliance isn't working great. For an example, I was driving through rural Alabama, which has a state wide mask mandate, and at every convivence store I stopped in, everyone was masked. Right next door in Georgia, which has the opposite of statewide mask mandate (the governor made local mandates illegal), al…

Voluntary compliance is working great: people can do whatever they feel like doing, which is literally the point of voluntary compliance.

Re: Swedish King Carl XVI Gustaf says coronavirus approach 'has failed'

#20

Post by 0x445442 »

elliekelly wrote: post #13
taeric wrote: post #5

I don't get the criticism of the guidance being "voluntary". The bigger question is more in compliance, no? That is, if they have compliance rates that are comparable to the countries that do have legal recourse, do we have reason to think legal recourse would have gotten them better compliance?

This Yale study[1] collected data from every county in the US about which restrictions were in place and then tracked how many people got sick. Their data[2] distinguishes between “mask mandate” and a “mask recommendation” and the study author is quoted that the recommendation “doesn’t do anything”. Of course this is all US data so I’m not sure whether or to what extent it would apply to Sweden’s compliance with a ma…

Yep. In order to claim something a failure you need objective criteria to begin with. In terms of Covid those objective criteria never existed and thus the King's claim has as much meaning and weight as mine that Sweden's handling of Covid has been a wild success compared to other countries.
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