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Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

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Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#81

Post by mulcahey »

ogre_codes wrote: post #72
mulcahey wrote: post #55

Perhaps a dumb question but I'm curious why people don't use a VPS or a cloud linux machine more for Docker/K8s development instead of running Docker locally on a Mac. In my experience Docker Desktop has been such a resource hog, and Apple's hypervisor implementation pretty poor. I much prefer to have all that heavy lifting isolated away from my development machine to keep it responsive and cool.

If you have multiple developers working on the same product, you want each developer to have their own environment. In my experience, for cost, convenience, and productivity its made most sense to do this with local Docker. It also eliminates a lot of connectivity issues with running on a remote machine. > In my experience Docker Desktop has been such a resource hog Not sure if this is related to the specific project…

Here is an example thread of many users experiencing resource utilization issues with various root causes:

https://github.com/docker/for-mac/issues/3499

Some root causes have been addressed. If they are significantly changing the architecture with the Apple Silicon rollout, I'm very much looking forward to see if that improves things!

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#82

Post by ehutch79 »

diveanon wrote: post #53
perbu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Docker for mac was running natively it would be more or less useless. Nobody deploys production code on MacOS hosts anymore. That it is all so smoothly powered by Linux is what makes it a great product.

I develop exclusively on Linux, but it would be nice if my teammates who don't didn't melt their laptops doing local dev on mac. If apple gave a shit about non apple developers they would provide the kernel hooks to help make it possible. Also, nobody deploys on mac hosts because virtualizing macos in a cloud environment is against tos, so options are expensive and limited.

I deploy on linux, but dev on macOS without a vm or docker or anything. If you're not doing anything OS dependant, which most web apps don't, you can run everything natively.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#83

Post by jbirer »

scoopdewoop wrote: post #77
jbirer wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were not available for purchase by everyone.

If they were available for purchase to non-developers, how would that be early availability? That would just be a release.

If they were available to every developer, Docker would not have been this late.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#84

Post by dabeeeenster »

stephenr wrote: post #23
diveanon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad, if they had it running natively I would actively consider switching back to mac. Glad to see they are making progress on the M1 port though, my team will be excited.

... if docker ran “natively” it’d mean using kernel hooks provided by xnu, which means you’d be able to run another instance of macOS in a container. How is it so many people use docker but have zero fucking clue about how it works?

Because you don't need to?

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#85

Post by perbu »

diveanon wrote: post #53
perbu wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Docker for mac was running natively it would be more or less useless. Nobody deploys production code on MacOS hosts anymore. That it is all so smoothly powered by Linux is what makes it a great product.

I develop exclusively on Linux, but it would be nice if my teammates who don't didn't melt their laptops doing local dev on mac. If apple gave a shit about non apple developers they would provide the kernel hooks to help make it possible. Also, nobody deploys on mac hosts because virtualizing macos in a cloud environment is against tos, so options are expensive and limited.

Me and I just about everyone I know that has a mac develops _for_ Linux. What is nice is that I can push, pull and run Linux images on my mac.

If the containers where native Macos docker images it would be about as useful as native Docker on Windows. Which I'm sure is great for the few ppl that need it - but pretty useless for most ppl.

But I sure wouldn't mind if was a bit snappier. But it is plenty fast enough for my needs atm.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#86

Post by cogman10 »

MangoCoffee wrote: post #54
ogre_codes wrote: post #49

This bit about Multi-platform development is most interesting to me. > Many developers are going to experience multi-platform development for the first time with the M1 Macs. This is one of the key areas where Docker shines. Docker has had support for multi-platform images for a long time, meaning that you can build and run both x86 and ARM images on Desktop today. If multi platform images work, a lot of the concerns…

>Of course, once you can do everything on ARM as well as you can on x86. i have high hope for AMD/TSMC to push x86. Intel seem to be...stuck for now.

I mean, if the apple approach really works well then I could see AMD or even Intel following suit in the future.

If the industry starts to shift and push towards ARM due to cost, AMD and Intel would be fools to just leave that on the table.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#88

Post by haswell »

stephenr wrote: post #38
haswell wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker obscures the implementation details. Part of this is by design: don't worry about the hard stuff, because Docker does it for you. It's completely unsurprising that many folks haven't spent the time to dive into the internals. In many cases, because they don't need to. Such is the nature of abstraction and higher level frameworks.

Just because CorporationX says “don’t worry about it we got you bruh” doesn’t mean technologists - people who actively work with technology and write software - should be excused for just throwing up their hands and saying “it’s just ducking magic I don’t know how it works”. I’m not talking about understanding it to the level of being able to contribute a patch to the project. I’m talking about understanding that con…

> Just because CorporationX says “don’t worry about it we got you bruh” doesn’t mean technologists - people who actively work with technology and write software - should be excused for just throwing up their hands and saying “it’s just ducking magic I don’t know how it works”.

Entire industries are built on the premise that "don't worry about it, we got you". I'm not saying that it's appropriate to be completely blind/unaware of what you're using, but there's a line somewhere that's surprisingly difficult to draw in 2020.

I don't think anyone would argue that learning more is a bad thing. But the more salient point is that for many, it's just not necessary.

If you're doing work that requires a deeper knowledge of the thing, then of course you should learn it. If you're not doing work that requires this knowledge, it'd be a waste of time, the most precious commodity available to us.

Others have made the comparison to learning assembly. Useful? sure. Necessary in 2020? Usually not.

> It isn’t rocket science. I literally explained it in one sentence, and I’ve never used docker in my life.

This is what you said:

> ... if docker ran “natively” it’d mean using kernel hooks provided by xnu, which means you’d be able to run another instance of macOS in a container.

Not only does this tell the reader nothing practical about how Docker actually works, it doesn't even address the parent comment in a useful/informative way.

You followed this up with a statement that is a borderline personal attack on the parent comment.

I mean this as constructively as possible, but you need to work on your delivery, and ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish with these comments. So far, they've been unhelpful and borderline abusive.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#89

Post by ehutch79 »

jbirer wrote: post #60
ehutch79 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker or M1 macs?

The M1 Macs. Docker is awesome.

How do you think this transition has gone badly?

For the average, normal human, they won't notice which platform they're on. Only someone with a niche need will have any issues. and those issues are being fixed rapidly.

While there are definitely gotchas and considerations, i've seen people say there will never be audio software on m1 in the next 2 years. there's already daws with m1 support and bridging for vsts being released.

So, it's hard to buy into the idea this platform transition has been so horrible you'd abandon using macs.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#90

Post by diveanon »

mulcahey wrote: post #55

Perhaps a dumb question but I'm curious why people don't use a VPS or a cloud linux machine more for Docker/K8s development instead of running Docker locally on a Mac. In my experience Docker Desktop has been such a resource hog, and Apple's hypervisor implementation pretty poor. I much prefer to have all that heavy lifting isolated away from my development machine to keep it responsive and cool.

Network volitilty and debugging were the reasons I moved back to a mostly local dev setup.

I also run linux though so resources aren't much of an issue for me. I'm actively considering setting up remote environments for one of my teams that is all mac users working in a containerful dev environment.

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