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Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

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Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#31

Post by outworlder »

haswell wrote: post #25
stephenr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... if docker ran “natively” it’d mean using kernel hooks provided by xnu, which means you’d be able to run another instance of macOS in a container. How is it so many people use docker but have zero fucking clue about how it works?

Docker obscures the implementation details. Part of this is by design: don't worry about the hard stuff, because Docker does it for you. It's completely unsurprising that many folks haven't spent the time to dive into the internals. In many cases, because they don't need to. Such is the nature of abstraction and higher level frameworks.

We aren't even close to a point where someone can just pretend a container is a magical box that just works.

All abstraction leak. This is a relatively recent, quite leaky one.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#32

Post by diveanon »

paxys wrote: post #30
diveanon wrote: post #20

Happy to hear they are making progress, but I would caution people on being an early adopter. It's a tech preview only and don't screw yourself by thinking you will be able to just jump into your usual workflow without issues. Good luck docker!

On the other hand, kinks will be ironed out only with the help of early adopters willing to take the leap and try doing "real" work.

More power to them, unfortunately I don't get paid to QA docker :/

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#33

Post by perbu »

diveanon wrote: post #17
jontro wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under the hood there is a linux vm running.

Too bad, if they had it running natively I would actively consider switching back to mac. Glad to see they are making progress on the M1 port though, my team will be excited.

If Docker for mac was running natively it would be more or less useless. Nobody deploys production code on MacOS hosts anymore.

That it is all so smoothly powered by Linux is what makes it a great product.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#34

Post by munro »

diveanon wrote: post #17
jontro wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under the hood there is a linux vm running.

Too bad, if they had it running natively I would actively consider switching back to mac. Glad to see they are making progress on the M1 port though, my team will be excited.

People griefing about to you that you have no idea what you're talking about, smh, don't listen to them. All I have to say to them is: look at the Wine project running Windows software natively on Linux. Don't underestimate nerds who have a vision in mind. And look at Kubernetes deprecating Docker. At the highest level of application development, all these details don't matter. I'm using all GNU command line tools compiled for my Mac, I'm sure we could figure something out to increase containerization efficiency on Mac. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#35

Post by flemhans »

diveanon wrote: post #32
paxys wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, kinks will be ironed out only with the help of early adopters willing to take the leap and try doing "real" work.

More power to them, unfortunately I don't get paid to QA docker :/

Do you only do what you are paid to?

That being said, I'll also hold off a little while getting an Apple Silicon device, until various kinks are worked out. And until I can get a 16" MacBook Pro.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#37

Post by outworlder »

munro wrote: post #2

Does this mean I can run containers natively on Mac? And I don't need a VirtualBox VM running on my Mac to launch containers? This would be huge for me, and is always a big in my mind why I would consider switching back to Linux. Edit: Docker on Mac has never felt as snappy as on Linux, because of the VM, though I have no hard numbers. Networking is a PITA, but it's not hard to figure out. The other main thing I hate…

> Docker on Mac has never felt as snappy as on Linux

It's extremely slow compared to Linux and I'm pointing my fingers at the virtualization layer without any hard evidence because it's the most likely suspect.

With all this focus on sandboxing apps of late, I'm wondering how far the OSX kernel is from having a feature set that resembles cgroups and network namespaces.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#38

Post by stephenr »

haswell wrote: post #25
stephenr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... if docker ran “natively” it’d mean using kernel hooks provided by xnu, which means you’d be able to run another instance of macOS in a container. How is it so many people use docker but have zero fucking clue about how it works?

Docker obscures the implementation details. Part of this is by design: don't worry about the hard stuff, because Docker does it for you. It's completely unsurprising that many folks haven't spent the time to dive into the internals. In many cases, because they don't need to. Such is the nature of abstraction and higher level frameworks.

Just because CorporationX says “don’t worry about it we got you bruh” doesn’t mean technologists - people who actively work with technology and write software - should be excused for just throwing up their hands and saying “it’s just ducking magic I don’t know how it works”.

I’m not talking about understanding it to the level of being able to contribute a patch to the project.

I’m talking about understanding that containers are inherently tied to the kernel, and thus are limited to running software written for the same kernel as the host running the container.

It isn’t rocket science. I literally explained it in one sentence, and I’ve never used docker in my life.

This is along the same level of knowledge as “no, you can just take an iPhone app and run it on android” or “no you can’t just take a SQLServer query and run it on anything that vaguely knows “SQL”.

Re: Tech Preview of Docker Desktop for M1

#40

Post by Ar-Curunir »

stephenr wrote: post #23
diveanon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad, if they had it running natively I would actively consider switching back to mac. Glad to see they are making progress on the M1 port though, my team will be excited.

... if docker ran “natively” it’d mean using kernel hooks provided by xnu, which means you’d be able to run another instance of macOS in a container. How is it so many people use docker but have zero fucking clue about how it works?

Do you know the details of the x86 architecture? Why so toxic?
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