Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 197 posts

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#171

Post by zepto »

OzCrimson wrote: post #166
zepto wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly what Apple is planning to implement, and what Facebook opposes. When given a choice, 70% of people opt-out. This is terrifying to Facebook.

I think there should be an opt-IN model. Opting out can be made confusing and difficult and time-consuming. I've gone to websites that list over 300 3rd parties that they share data with. Opting out means going to every one of those 3rd parties one at a time and hunting for their opt-out link. And those come with a warning: If you clear your cookies, you'll have to do this again. And the opt-out only applies on this…

My understanding is that Apple is going to present the option to the user. They won’t have to search for it.

Whether there is an actual default or just a pair of options, I don’t know.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#172

Post by kashprime »

apocalyptic0n3 wrote: post #69
officeplant wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a general tech enthusiast I jump back and forth between both ecosystems fairly often, but I have to wonder what's the point? If I'm not running any social media applications what do I have to fear from google not yet having this level of privacy toggling.

Just because you aren't running Facebook doesn't mean they aren't in your device. Many apps and sites contain Facebook libraries for logins, sharing, advertising, and analytics. If they include any of those, you are automatically sending data back to Facebook. With the way things are currently setup, Facebook can easily tie your activity in one app to your activity in another app. And as we have known for years now,…

It's a really good point; what really got me was Facebook being impossible to remove from my Samsung device (S8+) without rooting. Likely due to their tie-up with Oculus. I find the uncannily appropriate ads being served fairly disturbing, and an invasion of privacy. It's going to be a real challenge transferring data and settings though...

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#173

Post by manicdee »

ebetica0 wrote: post #113
elondaits wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind that my ads are targeted based on my location, content of my messages, etc. ... What I mind is that nobody can assure who the buyers of my data are, or what they're really using it for. Facebook says "small businesses", but there are no guarantees it's not your government, a foreign government, your employer, your insurance company, a scammer, etc.

But Facebook never sells the data itself, it only sells targeting capabilities. The government can only say "display this ad to people who fit these categories", but they can never see those identities.

Even if this was true, the targeting can get so fine grained that you can basically narrow your ads down to individuals, and your ad can be whatever payload you want.

“Deliver this specific JavaScript to all white men in Vermont who own a 2015 iMac 21” who predominantly browse in Private Mode, drive a Mazda 3, and have visited Real Doll twice in the last month.”

That is basically one person. Now you know their location because the JavaScript loaded a unique file from service you have access to.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#174

Post by violetgarden »

ben_w wrote: post #42
violetgarden wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a minimal Facebook account that I wasn’t really using, so I deleted it. Before deleting, I downloaded the third party vendors that Facebook shared data with and was shocked. I almost am never logged in to Facebook and yet here was Home Depot, the company I get face wash from, etc all linked back to my account somehow, and I had no idea.

Are there any other stores near you that you could’ve used instead of Home Depot? The reason I’m suggesting in your particular case that this might have been a lucky guess rather than invasive Detective-Sherlock-type inference is that when I did the same to Twitter, I discovered that they thought I was interested in soccer (I’m not) and three languages I don’t speak and have never attempted to learn.

That’s true! Some might be lucky. The face wash brand I use is pretty distinctive and not sold everywhere, and that was on the report, so I feel like there is a lot of truth in the products being linked back to me.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#175

Post by violetgarden »

cactus2093 wrote: post #120
tomcam wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the more important question is... Home Deopt for face wash?

the etc implies this is a list of 2 different companies, I don't think he buys face wash from home depot

No no, I use sandpaper. So much cheaper than other exfoliating washes.

But yes, I did mean to imply two different companies.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#176

Post by jumelles »

judge2020 wrote: post #55
rorykoehler wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m on iOS primarily for this reason. If you don’t want to pay the Apple tax just get second hand devices. I just upgraded to the iPhone 8 and it’s perfect. Feels premium still. Does everything I need.

the SE 2 is also a pretty good price, it's only a generation behind in the processor department (7nm A13), has touch ID (no mask moving for face ID) and is $400 (449 for 128gb). Apple's margins for this device can't be large given the iP8 it's modeled after costed $700 at launch.

I've had an SE 2 since May, it works flawlessly. I was worried I'd miss the headphone jack but wireless headphones fill the gap well.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#177

Post by dabbledash »

kbos87 wrote: post #19

I have zero sympathy for Facebook. If they claim to care so much about small businesses, they should start by committing to change how they respond to any upstart social app that dares encroach on what they see as their territory. That being said - and it pains me to say this - but there is absolutely truth to the fact that the style of targeting now possible on FB & Instagram has enabled an entire world of very smal…

People should be able to opt in to what they want, but as far as I’m concerned if a company can only exist by subjecting me to constant surveillance it doesn’t need to exist.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#178

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

bonoboTP wrote: post #98
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't know how to make these different use cases clear without having pages and pages of explanation that nobody will read. Expose the logic. Put a "?" Icon button on the add that lists every data point used in the decision making process, who collected the data, when, and how. E.g: 1.1.2020 @ Starbucks on main st in 90210 you bought a medium coffee, a gift card, and a cookie. 1.3.2020 @ Barnes and noble you bough…

But that's not how sophisticated machine learning algorithms work. Without knowing specifics, it gets us in the right ballpark to imagine they ingest all that kind of information and build an opaque representation of the user/customer, which allows various similarities to be computed between users and ads, regarding how likely they are to be receptive or how likely they will click. There's no short list of events you…

If all those metrics are being used to sell advertisements against me then I have every right to know each metric, all the details behind every single piece of data collected, from where when and whom, as well as the right to know to know how every data point and metric and is used to sell every specific advertisement to me. That means everything I just enumerated and more must be retained every time a query is run against my data or auction is ran to advertise to me.

What's that about a short list? Sorry, I may not have been clear, if you're using 1 data point or 1x10e999 I have the right to know every single one. I have the right to know the inferences drawn about me and how advertisers can target me. If companies aren't retiring data they are reckless and auditable records for every customer should help to rectify that imbalance. Likewise, if a model cannot be explained, proven mathematically, and reproduced then it's bad computer science. I'm sorry if this seems offensive but I'm sick of the whole move fast and break things when innocent people keep getting hurt or companies fleeced of their advertising dollars.

Either this stuff can be explained in reverse (so consumers know what privacy they've sacrificed, and advertisers know they're not being fleeced) or it can't and there's sketchy or bad computer science at work.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#179

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

zwkrt wrote: post #134
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't know how to make these different use cases clear without having pages and pages of explanation that nobody will read. Expose the logic. Put a "?" Icon button on the add that lists every data point used in the decision making process, who collected the data, when, and how. E.g: 1.1.2020 @ Starbucks on main st in 90210 you bought a medium coffee, a gift card, and a cookie. 1.3.2020 @ Barnes and noble you bough…

Even if that were possible it wouldn’t really explain why you got this ad vs some other one, so the explanation would fall flat. That is just “how” you got it not “why” you got it.

You're missing my point.

Many ads are sold in real time auctions. Every metric exposed or used in that process should be accounted for and auditable by the advertised too. Let the user, or journalists, or researchers figure out the why from the corpus.

Re: Facebook criticizes Apple’s iOS privacy changes with full-page newspaper ads

#180

Post by OzCrimson »

zepto wrote: post #171
OzCrimson wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there should be an opt-IN model. Opting out can be made confusing and difficult and time-consuming. I've gone to websites that list over 300 3rd parties that they share data with. Opting out means going to every one of those 3rd parties one at a time and hunting for their opt-out link. And those come with a warning: If you clear your cookies, you'll have to do this again. And the opt-out only applies on this…

My understanding is that Apple is going to present the option to the user. They won’t have to search for it. Whether there is an actual default or just a pair of options, I don’t know.

This has me seriously thinking about paying the Apple premium and ditching Android.
Post reply on HN