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Bitcoin breaks above $20k

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Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#211

Post by phoinix »

spurgu wrote: post #207
phoinix wrote: post #144

Someone has to feel sorry for Btc. Many people are going to lose money. Bitcoin has value. It is only Btc people that took a very nice technology and crippled it. The put a cap in it's block size, and they removed instructions of the Bitcoin Script language. Bitcoin's usage lies in it's use as an immutable ledger, that no one can change the past. We can put other information inside it,alongside with the money transac…

Easier and more effective to just store the hash of the video on a blockchain.

Of course.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#212

Post by garmaine »

paulgb wrote: post #57
garmaine wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that this isn’t true. Bitcoin currently uses 80-90% renewable sources or opportunistic power capture, which is effectively zero-carbon. The incentives of bitcoin mining drive this, since carbon-neutral energy sources have lower marginal costs.

Here’s a recent study from Cambridge that puts it at 39%. The studies I’ve seen with higher numbers always seem to be funded by firms involved in crypto trading. https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternati...

39% renewable, which is actually higher than I expected. I said renewable and opportunistic power capture. The latter is a large proportion of mining because it is effectively free income. There are a lot of places in the world where excess power is generated and wasted because there aren’t uses on site. Bitcoin mining is a relatively cheap way to offset cost of operations in these areas.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#213

Post by cocktailpeanuts »

elefanten wrote: post #171
tboyd47 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're looking for more substantive discussion among Bitcoiners, touching on its relation to economics, politics, and society, YouTube and Reddit are not the spots. I'd try Twitter. Start with @saifedean and go from there.

A cursory glance at his feed did not instill confidence. Seemed like a pop business huckster.

Yes because he is. These are the people who are spearheading this whole environment being criticized in this thread.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#214

Post by aplummer »

rodiger wrote: post #173
batmanthehorse wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the energy consumption is my biggest criticism, so the answer is "no" (even though you try to sidestep that). buying a pack of gum with bitcoin could power a whole house for 2 months, that's awful and irresponsible.

How much energy do you think the current financial system consumes? Eg paying for a pack of gum with your Mastercard Edit: This wasn't intended to be a hypothetical- I agree BTC uses significantly more per transaction, but I'm curious how it compares to the entirety of a system like Mastercard divided by number of transactions (including all employee/office space/commute/etc energy consumption). There are clearer/few…

Less than the cost of the transaction fees + terminal and merchant fees amount of energy

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#215

Post by quattrofan »

three_seagrass wrote: post #119
arithma wrote: post #87

Just a question, isn't all criticism against bitcoin applicable to gold? Money/Currency/Value in general can't be reduced or derived from first principles. You always have to take into account human nature, economic activity, and most unfortunately: psychology. So all criticism about how bitcoin inherently being pointless, sounds like off-tune. I want good reasons to/NOT-to buy in. First-world country citizens kind o…

Gold isn't controlled by a handful of miners in China, the way Bitcoin is. The whole decentralization-as-design principle of Bitcoin has shown that, given few constraints, anything of value naturally centralizes on the select few with the means to control it anyways. The block size debate, and the tragedy of the commons that it shines a light on, is a prime example of that.

How do they "control it" exactly?

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#216

Post by xur17 »

627467 wrote: post #150
_sm6n wrote: post #94

It's kinda sad that the pricing or market capitalization is the only thing that is being talked about in the "cryptocurrency community", instead of focussing on how the technology can be useful for society. Like for example if you look at /r/Bitcoin, there's a sidebar with "Submit text/link NOT about price", yet virtually every post is about price, even if just indirectly (Paypal joins the cryptocurrency bandwagon an…

I don't think its fair to say it's "the only thing", although I'll give it that its the most popular aspect that it's talked about. The truth is excitement and hype around price is the lowest common denominator for people interested in cryptocurrency so naturally it would be the most visible topic. Tech around this is still very... technical, young non-vital, niche. I understand why people worry and even discard the…

> The truth is excitement and hype around price is the lowest common denominator for people interested in cryptocurrency so naturally it would be the most visible topic.

Echoing this, I'm involved in several more technical cryptocurrency groups, and there is little reference to the price, even today. Pretty much all of the discussion is around the technology itself, and what it can do.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#217

Post by beefield »

arithma wrote: post #87

Just a question, isn't all criticism against bitcoin applicable to gold? Money/Currency/Value in general can't be reduced or derived from first principles. You always have to take into account human nature, economic activity, and most unfortunately: psychology. So all criticism about how bitcoin inherently being pointless, sounds like off-tune. I want good reasons to/NOT-to buy in. First-world country citizens kind o…

> Just a question, isn't all criticism against bitcoin applicable to gold?

Pretty much. It is insane that gold mines pollute the environment while central banks hoard double-digit percentage of ever mined gold in their vaults. And I see also no difference in the stupidity of central banks supporting gold price or cryptocurrency price.

(There is a small difference, though, as a noble metal, gold actually has some utility outside inves^H^H^H^Hgambling and illegal trade)

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#218

Post by silentsea90 »

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #43
silentsea90 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does the "game of musical chairs" have to go on before you consider the possibility that this isn't one? It has been a decade since BTC was launched.

I'll consider that this isn't a game of musical chairs as soon as a non-trivial amount of BTC is used for anything other than speculation. We've been in a massive credit bubble for well over a decade, we saw it wiggle a bit in 2008, but we're still deep in it. Just because these insane illusions are able to maintain themselves for absurdly long periods of time doesn't make them real. What we've seen is capital desper…

One man's speculation is another's investment.

We've also seen a massive liquidity pump (aka money printer), so it isn't just credit.

Unlike stocks that have to justify valuations with financial metrics, BTC has no such obligations and remains a peg against the massive liquidity influx.

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#219

Post by silentsea90 »

slg wrote: post #134
gruez wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's much easier to pull off a scam if have total control over it. Is there some mastermind behind the bitcoin scam?

Calling Bitcoin a "game of musical chairs" doesn't necessarily imply it is a scam. It simply implies that the music will eventually stop and leave someone with huge loses. There doesn't need to be a mastermind behind that. The length of time the music has been playing shouldn't be any solace to anyone participating if they can't come up with other legitimate reasons why a $20k value is valid.

There isn't a dearth of information online on why the value is valid. Can you present what you find unconvincing?

Re: Bitcoin breaks above $20k

#220

Post by spurgu »

alex_young wrote: post #169

I see lots of comments suggesting that BTC is a constant store of value and that it is rising in USD terms because of ‘money printing’. If that was the case, wouldn’t we see inflation in USD prices for a basket of goods? Isn’t inflation very close to zero? Others say they are sick of talking about BTC price and would rather focus on its utility. This makes sense, but for the same reason above it cannot happen since o…

> If that was the case, wouldn’t we see inflation in USD prices for a basket of goods? Isn’t inflation very close to zero?

Given the rate of artificially keeping the economy going by printing money at unprecedented rates I'm surprised the house of cards hasn't come down a long time ago.

> Others say they are sick of talking about BTC price and would rather focus on its utility.

Perfect example of its utility is the other day when Pornhub started accepting bitcoin after Visa/Mastercard shut down their transactions. Drugs are another obvious one. A third one is not being controlled/manipulated (at least directly) by governments.

> Your options if you hold it are to buy something with it today or to hold onto it for a short period of time and buy 2 things with it later.

This hasn't deterred people from buying computers/smartphones, even if they know they can get a better one if they wait a year.

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