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Gmail having issues

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Re: Gmail having issues

#311

Post by alfiedotwtf »

jimmydorry wrote: post #294
mehrdadn wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gmail screwed up, but that's beside the point. We're talking about designing robust systems. You don't design a robust system by assuming nobody will screw up! Re: the RFC, note it says "should not", not "must not". That seems to suggest they acknowledge repeating might actually make sense in some cases. And honestly the practicalities of this situation and the risk-reward tradeoff seriously tilts toward repeating th…

Try delivering to invalid email addresses too many times (too many of course being up to each mail provider), and you will be the one shitlisted (and rightfully so, as you are likely bruteforce enumerating valid email addresses). For any small provider, getting on the shitlist is catastrophic as unlike the big providers, getting off of it will be hard / impossible.

Rules for thee, not for me

Re: Gmail having issues

#312

Post by brnt »

coldpie wrote: post #43
Seirdy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is another good reason to have email @yourowndomain.tld When this happens, you can spin up a temporary server and have a mechanism in place to redirect email so you don't go down when your provider does.

I've had way more downtime trying to run my own domain's mailserver for a year than I have with gmail for more than a decade.

Not me, and I'm not even paying for the services I've been switching between.

Re: Gmail having issues

#313

Post by mrmonkeyman »

kleinsch wrote: post #170
firebaze wrote: post #47

As quite a few googlers appear to read and write on HN, I'd really welcome an insider info on what's going on the last few days. Sure there will be some internal turmoil going on right now, but isn't there some non-confidential info to share? Can't imagine this will hurt the image of google neither in the short nor long run, quite the opposite.

I don’t work at Google, I’m at a different big tech that’s in the news frequently. Sharing inside info on an ongoing incident is a great way to get fired. Big tech companies are way different than startups where everyone can do a bit of anything. There are people whose job it is to handle that communication. You make their job a lot harder if you disclose information. The company is so big that as an engineer you may…

Yes, I hate that but they do it nonetheless so I don't see why we have to be such good citizens suddenly. Google fucked up. Nice. It's 100% garantueed something stupid and technically interesting. Nothing to be sued over.

Re: Gmail having issues

#314

Post by joering2 »

sebmellen wrote: post #222
gkop wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do the public gmail addresses compare to the enterprise (used to be G Suite, now Google Workspace) ones?

I would be very interested to know this as well. I am trying to switch my company over to Google Workspace right now and support has been telling me my signup issues will be "resolved in 48 hours or less." What a joke. And this after we're leaving AWS Workmail because of bounced emails. No luck with signing up so far.

Consider yourself lucky. I have some ad words in "approval" porocess for 6 months now. I kid you not - every Friday I receive email stating that the update will be send to me on Monday (insert date here). Then nothing happens on Monday until Friday comes and I get exactly same copy, only date is different. At this point I literally laugh.

About your query

I gather that you are concerned about your Ads Disapproval for your Google Ads Account.

Observation

I understand that this is taking a bit longer as we are working with a limited staff due to Global pandemic and there is another team who reviews the account so there can be a slight delay in the decision I apologize for the inconvenience caused as I understand this is not the answer which you are looking for but be rest assured I will get back to you on coming Friday 12/18/2020 end of business day.

For any further assistance, I am just an email away.

Sincerely,

Re: Gmail having issues

#315

Post by StreamBright »

mehrdadn wrote: post #253
throwaway201103 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuance is not called for. The standard states that a 5xx SMTP error is a permanent error and "The SMTP client SHOULD NOT repeat the exact request" Gmail screwed up here, returning a 550 error, it's not anyone else's job to try to second guess that or retry in contradiction of the accepted standard. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5321

Gmail screwed up, but that's beside the point. We're talking about designing robust systems. You don't design a robust system by assuming nobody will screw up! Re: the RFC, note it says "should not", not "must not". That seems to suggest they acknowledge repeating might actually make sense in some cases. And honestly the practicalities of this situation and the risk-reward tradeoff seriously tilts toward repeating th…

My understanding is that should not means that you should not try to retry. If I do retry than the other party can rightfully claim that I am DDOSing their service, trying to send emails to deleted accounts or put me on a spam list. I do not think that ignoring the RFC and trying to cover up for Google is the best course of action here. Maybe, just maybe, this is the right time when people realise what does it really mean to have an entity like Google. Because as it is stands, we are going to have the DNS infrastructure moved over to them with DoH and a similar outage is going to be even more devastating. The internet was designed to be resilient to failure because of its distributed nature and right now it just shows why concentrating resources in one place is bad.

Re: Gmail having issues

#316

Post by alphadevx »

snazz wrote: post #159
alphadevx wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me, mainly for privacy concerns. And I back it up daily to my local NAS. It's so easy to configure and run your own mail server, that I'm surprised we are the minority in the tech community.

> It's so easy to configure and run your own mail server Is it? Is dealing with IP reputation, getting your emails accepted by major providers, and being on the hook for fixing everything yourself very easy? I haven't tried, so I don't have personal experience, but I've heard enough horror stories to think that it's not a good use of my time.

Mine are accepted by Gmail so I am good. Considering how dominant Gmail is, that's all that really matters.

Regarding getting a bad IP rating, normally that's due to having an insecure config, like acting as an open relay, or not having DKIM enabled. There are lots of tutorials online about this, if you know Linux it really is easy.

Re: Gmail having issues

#317

Post by nikanj »

sebmellen wrote: post #222
gkop wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do the public gmail addresses compare to the enterprise (used to be G Suite, now Google Workspace) ones?

I would be very interested to know this as well. I am trying to switch my company over to Google Workspace right now and support has been telling me my signup issues will be "resolved in 48 hours or less." What a joke. And this after we're leaving AWS Workmail because of bounced emails. No luck with signing up so far.

Heavily recommend you don't switch your company over to Google. Microsoft seems to understand that in the enterprise world you actually have to have support personnel, not just an opaque AI without chance for appeal

Re: Gmail having issues

#318

Post by StreamBright »

bayindirh wrote: post #308
dataflow wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said this in another comment but this seems like a naive way to react to an "address does not exist error" that they've already delivered to before. The only legit scenario in which that happens is when the user deletes the address, which is a rare event (pretty much always The underlying issue (wherever this occurs) seems to be lack of nuance regarding error codes when people try to implement robust systems. Diffe…

> I said this in another comment but this seems like a naive way to react to an "address does not exist error" that they've already delivered to before. Like HTTP, SMTP is also designed to be stateless so, in the first place, the remote server shouldn't return a permanent error in temporary failure scenarios. The default error should be 450: "Requested action not taken – The user’s mailbox is unavailable”, not "the u…

This is exactly it. The RFC has error codes for temporary failures (just like HTTP 503 for example). Failing to implement the RFC, the jokes on you.

Re: Gmail having issues

#319

Post by xianwen »

freehunter wrote: post #183
xianwen wrote: post #158

Is Microsoft's Live Mail (Outlook.com) more reliable than Gmail?

I use Outlook.com for my primary email and I’ve had a few more outages than with Gmail but nothing I would consider major. The major issue is Outlook.com’s spam filtering is drastically worse than Gmail, I get so much spam that would be just so obvious to any rudimentary spam filter, I mark them as spam in Outlook.com, and the next day I get the exact same email again.

I'm considering moving to Outlook.com.

Re: Gmail having issues

#320

Post by chinathrow »

gjanezic wrote: post #6

AWS SES just blocked our account due to high number of bounces :(

The funny thing is part of that situation started exactly 24h ago as I too saw increased bounces from AWS SES towards Gmail addresses. Not for everyone though, to be fair.

If anyone from AWS SES is reading - please do not deliver bounce receipts for gmail for the time being - it makes everyones situation much worse.

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