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Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

freedom.press

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Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#411

Post by throwaway894345 »

znpy wrote: post #403
throwaway894345 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is arguing that journalists are unimportant, only that an increase in journalist arrests could be a really scary thing like authoritarianism or it could be that they just had a lot more contact with crankier cops.

Oh yeah I agree with that, I was just arguing that especially because the US had more unrest it makes even more problematic that journalists got arrested. That's a symptom of the fact that the establishment does not want the press to document what it's doing, to the point that it's arresting journalists.

> That's a symptom of the fact that the establishment does not want the press to document what it's doing, to the point that it's arresting journalists.

... or it's the other thing: more journalists in closer contact with crankier cops. Or maybe even some combination of the two. This is my point--we can't draw conclusions from an observed spike in arrests.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#412

Post by pessimizer »

pc86 wrote: post #275
three_seagrass wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Journalist is not loosely defined. FTA: >While we recognize the importance and the rights of the private citizen who snaps a photo or video of an arrest, this site will only cover individuals who self-identify as journalists and have some track record of journalistic work. Splitting hairs over the semantics of the word 'journalistic' is an attempt to discredit the study about authoritarianism being at an all time hig…

If you take a picture of something happening on your street and write a blog post about it, you are not a journalist. If you wouldn't be granted press credentials for something, you're probably not a journalist. If it's a side gig you don't intend to make a living doing, you're very likely not a journalist. There are plenty of instances where someone can fit into the article's definition of "journalist" where they pr…

> If you take a picture of something happening on your street and write a blog post about it, you are not a journalist.

Yes, you are, and should be protected.

> If you wouldn't be granted press credentials for something, you're probably not a journalist.

This is a horrific definition. Being a journalist can't be defined by the willingness of the subjects to be covered. That's stenography.

> If it's a side gig you don't intend to make a living doing, you're very likely not a journalist.

So belief in anything is evidence that you aren't a journalist. Journalists are defined by their income.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#413

Post by pnw_hazor »

passerby1 wrote: post #201
pas wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not following police order is grounds for arrest, not for getting a riot shield bashed into one's face.

Can officer give some absurd order just as cause to arrest someone?

Generally, yes. Victims of this tactic are required to obey the absurd orders and then seek remedy from the courts afterward.

There are exceptions related to orders to break the law, put oneself or others into danger, and so on.

For example, if you resist arrest, the underlying charge may get dropped for lack of evidence but the resisting arrest charges may remain. Though, the resisting arrest charges (or obstruction charges) may get dropped too depending on the prosecuting agency's policies.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#414

Post by devmunchies »

znpy wrote: post #383

As a non-us citizen I don't regard the US as a free country anymore. Mind you, Bill Clinton was impeached due to the Lewinsky scandal not much for the scandal itself but because he lied about having an affair with Monica Lewinsky, and it was considered inacceptable for the president of the US to be lying. Now you've got Orange Donald lying all the time and nobody's complaining that much, and journalists are getting a…

IMO when the forming of militias became "extreme" (even though it's in the constitution) is when the writing was on the wall. You can't maintain freedom from the govt without keeping it in check.

The public grew an aversion to militia's and we've been boiling the frog with more laws since.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#415

Post by bsanr2 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #199
riazrizvi wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it common knowledge that Gawker was a media company that irreverently covered silicon valley until it was bankrupted through litigation? The law courts are the main way that journalism is attacked in non-autocratic countries. Strong freedom of the press laws are celebrated, because they are constantly under siege by powerful people, who once targeted, would rather not have them.

Gawker was bankrupted because they really wanted to display Hulk Hogan's penis, filmed on a hidden camera in a private room, on their website. edit: removed reference to violating a court order, even though they did before having it overturned.

Gawker was bankrupted because they outed a closeted gay billionaire who was publicly, financially supporting anti-LGBT politicians. Said gay billionaire went on a crusade, funding a number of lawsuits against Gawker. Hulk Hogan's was but one of them, and the former wrestler was less concerned about his body being on display than of the video evidence of him calling his daughter's black boyfriend a "fucking nigger" (and before anyone flags me for that word, I use it purposely to drive home the point of which issue Hogan was likely most worried about, by way of their relative responses to that phrase vs the mental image of Hogan's phallus).

It should be noted that this billionaire none other than Peter Thiel, who was at one point, after this debacle, affiliated with Y Combinator. To speak to one of the higher up comments questioning the rise of authoritarianism on HN: here you have an example of two public individuals who HN readers are likely to side, or at least identify, with versus a quasi-journalistic entity.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#416

Post by throwanem »

dang wrote: post #324
mattacular wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is pretty conservative on average.

People with the opposite politics say exactly the opposite. Both are illusions—in fact they're the same illusion: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... Here's an example from the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25389506 . I could give you a hundred more. Both sides feel like the site is dominated by the other side, to a degree in proportion to the intensity of their own views…

You know, you've got a sample size here that'd make for a hell of a study. Maybe get hold of Scott Alexander, I hear he's taking some tentative post-doxing-threat steps out of the bunker.

Not even kidding. I'd participate, and I'd be fascinated to see the results.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#417

Post by Manfredo_1 »

maybeOneDay wrote: post #311
manfredo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a strong argument to be made for police accountability and conduct. But this post seems to complete ignore the actions of demonstrators and the journalists (often self-proclaimed and self-employed) embedded within them. Look at the disparity between Portland and Minneapolis with respect to the rest of the country: New York has 20 times the population yet only half the journalist arrests. Portland has the same…

I think this comment is dangerous as it legitimises the (clearly documented) widespread arrests of openly marked journalists behaving entirely non aggressively, almost surely because they were pointing cameras at police officers behaving violently. Whether or not you think that the police violence was justified (disclaimer: I don't, at all. I think the psuedo military tactics US police demonstrated were the opposite…

> I think this comment is dangerous as it legitimises the (clearly documented) widespread arrests of openly marked journalists behaving entirely non aggressively, almost surely because they were pointing cameras at police officers behaving violently.

I have yet to see an instance of journalists being arrested for filming.

What I have seen are crowds of people refusing to abide by curfews or dispersal orders and getting arrested - journalists are sometimes among them. Each time I see a video of a journalist supposedly being arrested for filming, I also see a bunch of people in the background who aren't filming also being arrested.

Anyone can don a jersey that says "press, or a lanyard claiming to be a journalist. The more widespread the notion that these things somehow exempt people from curfews and orders to disperse, the less surprised I am that so many journalists (most of them independent) are getting arrested.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#418

Post by thehappypm »

znpy wrote: post #383

As a non-us citizen I don't regard the US as a free country anymore. Mind you, Bill Clinton was impeached due to the Lewinsky scandal not much for the scandal itself but because he lied about having an affair with Monica Lewinsky, and it was considered inacceptable for the president of the US to be lying. Now you've got Orange Donald lying all the time and nobody's complaining that much, and journalists are getting a…

Did you hear that Trump was not re-elected?

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#419

Post by pc86 »

slg wrote: post #355
karaterobot wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that arrests of journalists are being tracked implies that some gatekeeping about who is a journalist is necessary. The clearer the definition is, the more meaningful the statistics will be. That is the only way we would actually be able track whether journalists are being targeted by police.

There is a difference between defining a category of people and gatekeeping a category of people.

What's the difference?

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#420

Post by neilparikh »

jimmygrapes wrote: post #302
dgritsko wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So here's the dilemma I'm faced with. As someone who wishes to consume news that is as factual as reasonably possible, while also being aware that at least some bias is inevitable (no matter how well-intentioned the author may be)... how does one evaluate a news source for its trustworthiness, short of physically observing an event for yourself?

Others have given great responses, but one thing not emphasized enough is recognizing the type of language used. It failed for various reasons, but The Knife used to do a textual analysis of articles and point out the manipulative language used. A quick example off the top of my head is recent reporting on the US election (all paraphrased, but I bet you can find real examples easily): "... baseless claims" "... witho…

The problem is, if they just repeat the claim verbatim, and it's about a complex topic (such as election interference or vote rigging), how is the reader supposed to actually make a decision on the topic, without doing weeks of investigation on their own? Shouldn't it be the media's job to analyze the claims and then inform the reader if they're valid or not?
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