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Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

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Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#381

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

dang wrote: post #331
sneak wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to get too meta, but I think rich people and SV have always tended toward authoritarian; it's not like rich people get hassled by the cops that often. Recall also that SV got its start by selling tech to the military[1]. It's not something sudden. You have to remember that HN is by and of a very specific part of wider society. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley#Views_on_race... [1]: https://…

That's not a true statement about HN. Less than 10% of the community is in SV—it's all over the world and has tons of different "very specific parts of wider society". That's one reason why people argue so much about this stuff. If you think the HN community is SV-friendly or even startup-friendly, it may surprise you that many people in those communities feel like it's exactly the other way around.

Thank you dang for this statistics. No wonder people find these SV extreme ideas weird and even weirder when they try to blame it on 'russian bots' etc. So deep in bubble that they can even grasp the idea what world is out there outside of these SV local ideas.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#382

Post by abacadaba »

Bodell wrote: post #354
abacadaba wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo he has hundreds(?) of examples if you scroll, but to save some time here's one from portland police https://twitter.com/PortlandPolice/status/128725192442150502... Edit: ok searching "press" on the feed maybe like more like tens rather than hundreds with actual video evidence, but im sure i missed some

So in looking at the first link. I had a hard time finding a single example of anyone pretending to be a journalist, except maybe the owner of the twitter account. What I did find were hundreds of videos of random people getting in fights, the owner of the account talking about the fights he had also engaged in, and a lot of claims about people being part of a secret underground antifi something or other. In reality…

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1327774883002998784?s=2...

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298145371009380352?s=2...

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1296075594896039937?s=2...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-protest-press-throwing-o...

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1296610943514812418?s=2...

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1300690653714591744?s=2...

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/news/read.cfm?id=26109...

From above police report link:

"Portland Fire & Rescue treated two Portland Police members injured by rocks thrown by individuals in the crowd. Both of them went to the hospital for further treatment. One of the rocks (pictured) weighed 9.5 pounds and was thrown by a person in group of people wearing "press" as the officer prepared to ride away on a truck. "

"At about 12:36 a.m., Portland Police began moving the crowd to the west as before. This went on for about twenty minutes. Police made more arrests. During this time people in the crowd mingled with those with "press" written on their outer garments as cover and threw rocks and bottles at police. People with "press" written on their outer garments also threw objects at police. Somebody threw a rock, which broke a window in the vehicle giving public address announcements. Others pelted the same vehicle with rocks causing dents. Other vehicles were dented by thrown objects. At least one car parked along a street had windows broken out when a rock or rocks thrown at police, missed them and struck the car windows. "

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#383

Post by znpy »

As a non-us citizen I don't regard the US as a free country anymore.

Mind you, Bill Clinton was impeached due to the Lewinsky scandal not much for the scandal itself but because he lied about having an affair with Monica Lewinsky, and it was considered inacceptable for the president of the US to be lying.

Now you've got Orange Donald lying all the time and nobody's complaining that much, and journalists are getting arrested almost literally more than ever and nobody's batting an eye.

Ridiculous.

How the mighty have fallen.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#384

Post by znpy »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #326
pc86 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take a picture of something happening on your street and write a blog post about it, you are not a journalist. If you wouldn't be granted press credentials for something, you're probably not a journalist. If it's a side gig you don't intend to make a living doing, you're very likely not a journalist. There are plenty of instances where someone can fit into the article's definition of "journalist" where they pr…

I admittedly haven't read the article yet (I'll carry the shame until my dying day, etc), but does it take into account that we've had a lot more unrest than usual this year? Even without an uptick in authoritarianism, I would expect more journalists to be arrested in a year with lots of riots and protests against the police than in a calm year. Specifically, you have record numbers of journalists working in close pr…

> I admittedly haven't read the article yet (...), but does it take into account that we've had a lot more unrest than usual this year?

If you have more unrest than usual (and it shouldn't be usual at all to have unrest) it's even more important to have more journalists circulating freely and writing/publishing freely: that's how you get to see and understand what's actually going on.

If you don't have journalists doing their job freely, you only have the state propaganda to listen to.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#386

Post by grumio »

thegrim33 wrote: post #364
astura wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's truly scary times we live in... It feels like the entire word has developed an authorization bend. The United States has a sitting president who is attempting a self-coup with the majority of the legislatures in his party supporting it, or at least not condemning it. It's just... shocking.

You make your claims as if it was fact and yet it isn't. Millions of people in the United States think you're completely brainwashed. The same way as somebody a few years ago that was freaking out that Obama was building work camps to force all gun owners into. For somebody outside of your echo chamber your viewpoints sound ridiculous.

The sitting president and his allies are actively trying to bypass millions of votes by asking state legislatures to appoint electors against the state's voters' will. That's a fact. Well, they did until that didn't work. Then they tried to throw out the electoral votes of four swing states. Trying to bypass an election like this is indeed a coup-attempt! I've got sources and everything! I've put a few sources below but I'm sure you can find more. These attempts to throw out millions of votes is not normal.

DeSantis urged Pennsylvania and Michigan residents to call state lawmakers and urge them to intervene. “Under Article 2 of the Constitution, presidential electors are done by the legislatures and the schemes they create and the framework. And if there’s departure from that, if they’re not following the law, if they’re ignoring law, then they can provide remedies as well,” he said. https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-tr...

Texas, supported by President Trump, tried to sue Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin and Michigan, claiming fraud, without evidence. https://www.npr.org/2020/12/11/945617913/supreme-court-shuts...

"After waiting over a year to challenge Act 77, and engaging in procedural gamesmanship along the way, they come to this Court with unclean hands and ask it to disenfranchise an entire state," they wrote. "They make that request without any acknowledgment of the staggering upheaval, turmoil, and acrimony it would unleash." --SCOTUS https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/944230517/supreme-court-rejec...

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#387

Post by znpy »

simonblack wrote: post #385

Tough titties. When the "real" journalists won't stand up for "non-real" journalists like Assange, they have to expect the same treatment will be meted out to them also.

That's also true, sadly, but: if they all get the Assange treatment tough, who's gonna remain writing articles? The regime-backed, state-obeying writers.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#388

Post by steveklabnik »

throw_a_say wrote: post #343
SkyPuncher wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When the thread is new, the only things to object to are the article and the title, so comments come from people objecting to those. Such posts tend to be reflexive and shallow because those are the fastest reactions to feel and the quickest to write. It'd be very interesting to see how a short delay of posting comments on new post would impact this. Compared to other vote-based sites, HN is very health - but to yo…

A slightly modified version would be to delay on post depth (assuming less depth = more delay) If you take it to the extreme, a youtube video being posted and everyone having to wait 5 minutes to comment, there is enough people that will see it at 4.30 to have a visceral reaction and post inflammatory comments. You can extend that down to each level of comments.

HN already does this to some degree, the "reply" button is hidden as you get deeper into a tree of comments.

You can, of course, click on the timestamp and see it anyway, so it's more of a speedbump for folks who don't know all of the details of how the forum works than a true delay, though.

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#389

Post by sneak »

dang wrote: post #331
sneak wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to get too meta, but I think rich people and SV have always tended toward authoritarian; it's not like rich people get hassled by the cops that often. Recall also that SV got its start by selling tech to the military[1]. It's not something sudden. You have to remember that HN is by and of a very specific part of wider society. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley#Views_on_race... [1]: https://…

That's not a true statement about HN. Less than 10% of the community is in SV—it's all over the world and has tons of different "very specific parts of wider society". That's one reason why people argue so much about this stuff. If you think the HN community is SV-friendly or even startup-friendly, it may surprise you that many people in those communities feel like it's exactly the other way around.

> That's not a true statement about HN.

I wrote "HN is by and of a very specific part of wider society". (I can see how "by" could be interpreted to mean the community, but I meant the authors/operators.) Are there any poor people who work on or for YC or HN? Genuinely curious; I assume that YC's staff and most everyone involved in maintaining and running both this site and YC in general is relatively prosperous, at least compared to the median in the US.

I'm sure that a website of this level of traffic receives all manner of visitors and participants, but I was specifically referring to the people who created and run it, and set the rules and general expectations of tone/topic on it. (I'm not calling you authoritarian, just "of SV" and not-poor.)

[edit: Also maybe I'm wrong and that the ratio of participants vs authors/operators is so vast that the operators play no part in setting the tone beyond the rules (and of course your hard work), in which case my conclusion should be dismissed and the question about why it seems to skew authoritarian should be reopened.]

Re: Record Breaking Number of Journalists Arrested in the U.S. This Year

#390

Post by giantrobot »

nickff wrote: post #73
tppiotrowski wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“While we recognize the importance and the rights of the private citizen who snaps a photo or video of an arrest, this site will only cover individuals who self-identify as journalists and have some track record of journalistic work.“ Looks like you’d have to produce some journalistic work in the past. Unclear if that’s a blog or having your worked printed in a major publication.

It's a completely circular definition (as far as I can see).

If I share something newsworthy on Twitter or YouTube, I shared something. I'm not a journalist. If I share something and add context and get perspectives other than my own I performed the work of a journalist. If I do this with some regularity I am a journalist, an amateur journalist but a journalist.

One of the key points of journalism is sourcing. You'll notice professional journalists, even in the middle of a war zone or natural disaster, will do interviews and try to get a larger context of events. They do this even when they're literally in the middle of an event and documented it themselves.

Anyone that went through journalism school is taught just because they see a thing it doesn't necessarily mean they know or understand what they saw. Their eye witness account is as unreliable as anyone else's so they not only admit to that fact but actively try to get other accounts to find all the common elements and context.

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