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Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

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Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#61

Post by [deleted] »

malandrew wrote: post #47
generalizations wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we can hardly answer them if we refuse to engage with the idea of reparations to begin with. That's because the first order of business is to demonstrate that reparations are even a good idea. Engage with those who don't like the idea, and address the concerns they raise, if you can; then deal with minutae.

And the second order of business assuming it is even a good idea would be to determine who should pay. The answer "taxpayers" is an absolute non-starter. My family only showed up in this country in the mid 80s and have zero responsibility for things that happened well over 100 years ago. We also don't live in states where slavery was ever a thing.

[deleted]

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#62

Post by rayiner »

rwcarlsen wrote: post #57
godmode2019 wrote: post #48

I have a pretty good idea, its about investing in Africa. America has a lot of assets, in the black population, they should encourage people to visit their homeland, on a paid trip. Helping the African economy and helping African Americans create business connects to Africa. Then there should be a programme where African Americans get a lump sum, if they start a business or invest in land in Africa. France is doing s…

Yeah - And I should invest specifically in Mexico because my grandma happened to be born there. African Americans - are Americans. They often have their own American subcultures, but the U.S.A is their home. Sure they have history connecting them to somewhere. But they can invest wherever the heck they want. No need to limit our generosity to our many generations removed ancestral roots.

Black Americans typically have deeper roots in the United States than white Americans: https://news.gallup.com/poll/4621/majority-americans-identif...

> Black Americans are more likely than either whites or Hispanics to be the third generation Americans. Seventy-five percent of black Americans indicate they are at least the third generation born in the United States, compared to 58% of whites and 13% of Hispanics.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#63

Post by redis_mlc »

Zigurd wrote: post #24
redis_mlc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But reparations should be paid, if for nothing else, at least for the unpaid hours. You must be young to speak with such certainty. Post-slavery, black sharecroppers basically made nothing after expenses. So how much was their time actually worth? (An economist will ask this.) Post-slavery, norhern states, which had no slaves, paid the cost of welfare for millions of black families. So how does that factor in? Sinc…

Do the people who had their property stolen by the Nazis have to pay the US for liberating the death camps? Yeah, no. There are simple answers to several of your questions.

If you're young and stupid, everything looks simple. Just pull down all the statues right? Even when they're for black historical figures, like Frederick Douglass:

https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-york-news/frederick-dougl...

If the US gets to the point of considering reparations, then economists will get involved, and it will be a logical calculation, not an emotional one.

The problem of intermarriage will probably end up being an intractable one. But you didn't think about that, now did you?

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#64

Post by marci »

godmode2019 wrote: post #48

I have a pretty good idea, its about investing in Africa. America has a lot of assets, in the black population, they should encourage people to visit their homeland, on a paid trip. Helping the African economy and helping African Americans create business connects to Africa. Then there should be a programme where African Americans get a lump sum, if they start a business or invest in land in Africa. France is doing s…

Would you say that white Americans homeland is Europe?

Most of African Europeans a)know what country their ancestors are from, b) have direct links to their relatives in Africa.

> Africa has a lot of future, plenty of growth. China knows this and has invested a lot into Africa.

I think this is exactly Africa's main issue: being seen first foremost as a land of resources and economic ventures. You go to the Americas/Europe/Asia/Oceania to visit, and Africa to make money/for "humanitarian aid". Things may evolve when they change to "X has invested a lot in Africans".

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#65

Post by engineer_22 »

winter_blue wrote: post #55
godmode2019 wrote: post #48

I have a pretty good idea, its about investing in Africa. America has a lot of assets, in the black population, they should encourage people to visit their homeland, on a paid trip. Helping the African economy and helping African Americans create business connects to Africa. Then there should be a programme where African Americans get a lump sum, if they start a business or invest in land in Africa. France is doing s…

> to visit their homeland This might trigger some people. If you used a term like "ancestral region(s)" or something, it might've been less triggering. Firstly, the word "homeland" is not one typically associated with one's country of ancestry. I've rarely ever heard someone use that term. On the contrary, I have heard people say "my ancestors came from X country", or like "my great-grandparents came from Italy". The…

Does money equal wealth?

A famous quote: "broke is temporary, poor is eternal"

Tongue in cheek, if we had a program of cash payments I suspect that TV manufacturers and car dealers would have record years.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#66

Post by gibreparations »

horns4lyfe wrote: post #40
seph-reed wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following is all just an opinion, and obviously this type of subject is a discussion. Doubly so because I'm white. I don't think anyone should pay any more than they benefitted from slavery. The average person has no ancestors who owned slaves, and the only benefits they got were things like cheaper goods and services. Added up over a lifetime, it's probably not a lot. But some people come from ancestors who made…

We should probably also consider charging the Europeans that made vast wealth shipping slaves, and the Africans that profited from capturing and selling their countrymen.

Charging the individual Europeans / middle eastern people involved, or the nations?

In the latter case, we can probably start collecting our reparations for the Barbary slave trades from the Arabs, and probably even make money! (Reparation arbitrage).

I accept petrol or petrodollars. Check my bio for the paypal link.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#67

Post by iaHN »

01100011 wrote: post #34
iaHN wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a pervasive fear that admitting that the US owes the descendants of slaves something could potentially validate the complaints black people have about other issues in America. See the posts about Timnit Gebru for comments depicting the demands of black people as "too disruptive".

Really? I think the resistance to reparations comes from folks like me who don't see a reason we should pay anything. Most of my ancestors are German immigrants to the northeast US who arrived after slavery was abolished. The remainder were poor Scotts Irish who continued to live in poverty in northern Appalachia. I understand, but do not agree with, the logical hoops many jump through to justify indebtedness to all…

What year is the correct cutoff year where the effects of slavery should be ignored?

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#68

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #56
01100011 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I think the resistance to reparations comes from folks like me who don't see a reason we should pay anything. Most of my ancestors are German immigrants to the northeast US who arrived after slavery was abolished. The remainder were poor Scotts Irish who continued to live in poverty in northern Appalachia. I understand, but do not agree with, the logical hoops many jump through to justify indebtedness to all…

A reparations law suit would most likely involve a court of law in which victims and benificiaries are identified, damages are calculated, and assets change hands. This fantasy where you just have to give up your personal property for no good reason is just a fantasy. It's not the way the law works. There will be a reason, it will be documented by a trail of papers and professional judges and attorneys will agree tha…

> benificiaries are identified, damages are calculated, and assets change hands

The assets changing hands will be the federal government paying descendants some sum of money taken from its tax base. And federal taxes are paid by everyone, even those of us whose families arrived after slavery and Jim Crow was abolished.

This is why some people are adamantly against reparations.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#69

Post by tunesmith »

01100011 wrote: post #34
iaHN wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a pervasive fear that admitting that the US owes the descendants of slaves something could potentially validate the complaints black people have about other issues in America. See the posts about Timnit Gebru for comments depicting the demands of black people as "too disruptive".

Really? I think the resistance to reparations comes from folks like me who don't see a reason we should pay anything. Most of my ancestors are German immigrants to the northeast US who arrived after slavery was abolished. The remainder were poor Scotts Irish who continued to live in poverty in northern Appalachia. I understand, but do not agree with, the logical hoops many jump through to justify indebtedness to all…

That's pretty similar to the arguments of why you should not have to pay part of your taxes because you don't agree with part of how it's spent. It might not have been "your" fault, but we all live in a society that bears the fault.

Re: Who Were America’s Enslaved? New Database Humanizes the Names Behind the Numbers

#70

Post by runako »

01100011 wrote: post #34
iaHN wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a pervasive fear that admitting that the US owes the descendants of slaves something could potentially validate the complaints black people have about other issues in America. See the posts about Timnit Gebru for comments depicting the demands of black people as "too disruptive".

Really? I think the resistance to reparations comes from folks like me who don't see a reason we should pay anything. Most of my ancestors are German immigrants to the northeast US who arrived after slavery was abolished. The remainder were poor Scotts Irish who continued to live in poverty in northern Appalachia. I understand, but do not agree with, the logical hoops many jump through to justify indebtedness to all…

> direct reparations are the best approach to resolving the continuing racism in America

This conflates two separate issues. One is about a financial debt owed to people. This is owed for forced labor and land thefts which continued into the 20th century. Like the OP said, for the most part this is well documented. Debts are repaid in cash or like goods.

Racism is a separate topic, which I agree should be approached differently.

Conflating the two issues is not helpful for understanding best approaches.

If you ask, many Black families will tell you about these thefts, which again are in the public record as title transfers.

Here's an example from the 20th: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce%27s_Beach . Events like this were common for decades in the 20th century. Even if you just limited to quasi-legal property theft via eminent domain, there's billions of documentable dollars owed and easily tracked. There's absolutely no reason not to give the land back to those families, or a cash payment for its fair market value.

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