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Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

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Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#81

Post by sedachv »

jhamburger wrote: post #27
sedachv wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it asinine to compare what is happening in North Korea to what is happening to black men in the USA?

Which would you rather be? Is it a close decision?

If I was a black male in the United States, I would have a 1 in 10 chance of being in prison at this moment. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta...)

Amnesty International estimates there's around 200,000 "political prisoners" in North Korea, out of a population of 25 million.

I think I'd rather be in North Korea.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#82

Post by pavlov »

chopsueyar wrote: post #19
bloggergirl wrote: post #2

Thank you for posting this. A key takeaway from the article is in the final paragraph: "if we allow it, we could live in a world that makes great strides forward, but that can never rid itself of the abhorrent authoritarian tool that is the concentration camp." We allow these horrors to occur. That's not a judgment on anyone; I'm definitely part of the problem because I'm not part of the solution (to borrow a cliche)…

We need to wait for large mineral or oil deposits to be found in North Korea, and then the US can implement democracy.

North Korea does have large mineral resources, but China already has the upper hand in exploiting the political situation to gain access to them:

“There are growing concerns that North Korea could be selling the development rights of mineral resources to China at a very cheap price as the relationships between the two Koreas worsen and North Korea has no other market to turn to,” said Yoon Hong-gi, an official with Korea Resources Corp.

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2931111

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#83

Post by lotusleaf1987 »

ck2 wrote: post #4

If they still made the sears catalog I'd suggest the key to starting a peoples' revolt in North Korea would be to airdrop hundreds of thousands of catalogs across the country. Even without understanding the language, just looking at all the goods would make people start wondering why they are being made to suffer so.

I've similarly joked that for the 3 trillion we're spending on Iraq and Afghanistan we could've just flown planes overhead that dropped porn, pop music, fast food, junk food, Xbox/PS3s, iPods/iPads etc. It would've been much cheaper, more effective, and worked much faster.

Who's going to want to be a martyr when you're Tivo'ing something at home microwaving a Hot-Pocket?

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#84

Post by jhamburger »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #64
jhamburger wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case the degree is fairly important though. If we ignore degree completely we have most of the liberal democracies in the world lumped in with NK, Libya and Zimbabwe. Obviously lines must be drawn.

That just begs the question. Where must the line be drawn? Those disagreeing with my point seem to feel that the line should be right between us and whoever is more ruthless than us. But why do we automatically view ourselves on the correct side of that line? I've we're engaged, as a matter of policy, in activities that many or most Americans believe to be evil, doesn't that put the drawing of the line into question?

I'm not asserting that the US has a superior human rights record or that we don't engage in policy that could be seen as 'evil'. The argument being made here seems to be that we lack the moral high ground to criticize the NK regime. I've heard a similar argument used to counter the US criticisms of China's human rights record, and while I think it could be relevant in that case, we're talking about mass death camps here. This is a completely different animal. We don't need to be perfect citizens to condemn abhorrant policy like this.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#85

Post by theycallmemorty »

nooneelse wrote: post #55
ck2 wrote: post #4

If they still made the sears catalog I'd suggest the key to starting a peoples' revolt in North Korea would be to airdrop hundreds of thousands of catalogs across the country. Even without understanding the language, just looking at all the goods would make people start wondering why they are being made to suffer so.

Sometimes I like to indulge a similar fantasy. Only in mine it would be an airdrop of hundreds of thousands of small, hand-crank powered, mesh and satellite enabled, fully encrypt-able communication devices. Upon start-up, the helpful cartoon would explain something like... "you don't have to use this to talk to the outside countries you have been taught to distrust (though we hope this gift helps you see us in a bet…

With the amount of thought-policing that goes on in that country, I can't imagine even beginning to explain to those people their true nature and the nature of pretty much every other human on earth.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#86

Post by dantheman »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #20
elliottcarlson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that visitors require a guide - someone who will hide the true nature of NK to them and ensuring they only see what they are allowed to see. Even though there has been a good amount of hidden camera footage exposed, or articles such as this one - there are plenty of people who may not really be aware of what is really going on there behind the scenes.

That reminds me of Nazi Germany when they went so far as to create a fake concentration camp for the Red Cross to visit.

If you're interested in Theresienstadt (the concentration camp) there's a great documentary called Prisoner of Paradise. It tells the story a Jewish filmmaker forced to make a propaganda film about the camp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_Paradise

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#87

Post by maxxxxx »

yequalsx wrote: post #10

What I can't understand is how people can visit North Korea and not feel disgusted by giving support for that regime. I believe North Korea is facing another famine this year. Given the conditions in North Korea and the apparent iron grip its regime has on power is it better not to provide food aid? I can't decide for myself if it's better, for the long term, to let the nation starve and not help the people out or to…

the right way would be to stop trade with china since they are the ones holding up that regime. Of course that won't happen.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#88

Post by cynicalkane »

pstack wrote: post #69
yequalsx wrote: post #10

What I can't understand is how people can visit North Korea and not feel disgusted by giving support for that regime. I believe North Korea is facing another famine this year. Given the conditions in North Korea and the apparent iron grip its regime has on power is it better not to provide food aid? I can't decide for myself if it's better, for the long term, to let the nation starve and not help the people out or to…

It's our way. We do business with China and visit them regularly, even though we know that much of what makes their manufacturing industry so competitive is the use of slave prison labor. It's weird how we decide what people deserve "liberation" and what people we just shrug our shoulders at and keep supporting, in one form or another, the government that is oppressing them.

We do business with China and visit them regularly, even though we know that much of what makes their manufacturing industry so competitive is the use of slave prison labor

Though the conditions of labor in China seem shocking to comfortable Americans, they are not, in general, "slave prison labor".

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#89

Post by bigwally »

kkleiner wrote: post #56
bigwally wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you watched the video they said it was all in 2 valleys. 200,000 in those two valleys? Impossible.

Sadly, I fear it is possible if you are squeezing 50 of them into a room designed for 5 people and feeding them tiny portions of corn meal each day.

It would have to be more densely populated than the center of Hong Kong.

This town/prison/concentration camp/detention center (or two valleys) would be lucky to have 10,000 people.

We better not let the facts get in the way of chance to bash North Korea.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#90

Post by amackera »

ck2 wrote: post #4

If they still made the sears catalog I'd suggest the key to starting a peoples' revolt in North Korea would be to airdrop hundreds of thousands of catalogs across the country. Even without understanding the language, just looking at all the goods would make people start wondering why they are being made to suffer so.

How about just dropping food?
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