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Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

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Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#61

Post by abbasmehdi »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #59
abbasmehdi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on muhfuhkuha, you're taking this out of context. The author is saying that China is an accomplice in crimes committed by NK because it expels refugees who face imminent threat in NK, thus making China an accomplice. China cannot push escapees back into shark waters and say "I am not the shark", I'd say "Yes China, but you kind of fed this person to the shark." The US has a very generous amnesty and refugee prog…

"The US has a very generous amnesty and refugee program" ... unless you're a little boy from communist Cuba who wanted to live free in America but was repatriated at gunpoint in the middle of the night[1]. [1] http://www.nndb.com/people/574/000025499/

Muhfuhkah you have a knack for taking things out of context. You come up with this as an example of someone facing the threat of being "killed or prosecuted in [their] home country"?

Elian Gonzales faced no such risks.

You're easy ;)

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#62

Post by bloggergirl »

rorrr wrote: post #38

US prison population: 2.2 million http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/US_...

Okay, well, for those who would rather look at the problems with the US justice & prison systems than the NK camps... what are you doing to fix things here?--anything?

Or are you just deflecting so that you don't have to try to help anyone?

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#63

Post by blhack »

ck2 wrote: post #23
callmeed wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about SkyMall catalogs instead? They're already on the planes ;)

Skymall is just gadgets, no? Sears catalog was full of every day practical stuff from clothing to household needs, tools, etc. The US government should have bought millions of leftover catalogs as propaganda to drop on countries like this. No bombs needed. Sadly it seems they stopped making it in 1993 (strangely well before internet shopping got started) http://www.searsarchives.com/catalogs/index.htm http://images.g…

It went on much later than 1993. Christmas time always meant going through the sears catalog and circling things that I wanted. I remember being annoyed at all of the clothes I had to skip past to get the toys. This continued well past 2000.

Here: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/nb_10153_12605_NB_Catalogs?adCell...

It looks like they separated it into a few distinct catalogs, which is kindof sad.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#64

Post by CWuestefeld »

jhamburger wrote: post #52
CWuestefeld wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I see it, the difference is only in degree. In both cases, people are being denied their freedom and taken away from their families, for engaging in activities that hurt no one, not even themselves. It's certainly true that American prisons are better . But given the OP's definition: "enduring starvation, torture, and rape while performing hard labor", we do hit a couple of checkboxes. My understanding is that pri…

In this case the degree is fairly important though. If we ignore degree completely we have most of the liberal democracies in the world lumped in with NK, Libya and Zimbabwe. Obviously lines must be drawn.

That just begs the question. Where must the line be drawn? Those disagreeing with my point seem to feel that the line should be right between us and whoever is more ruthless than us.

But why do we automatically view ourselves on the correct side of that line? I've we're engaged, as a matter of policy, in activities that many or most Americans believe to be evil, doesn't that put the drawing of the line into question?

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#65

Post by TeMPOraL »

chopsueyar wrote: post #19
bloggergirl wrote: post #2

Thank you for posting this. A key takeaway from the article is in the final paragraph: "if we allow it, we could live in a world that makes great strides forward, but that can never rid itself of the abhorrent authoritarian tool that is the concentration camp." We allow these horrors to occur. That's not a judgment on anyone; I'm definitely part of the problem because I'm not part of the solution (to borrow a cliche)…

We need to wait for large mineral or oil deposits to be found in North Korea, and then the US can implement democracy.

Sarcasm or not, it is a valid solution.

Making the whole problem somehow relevant economically to US or international community might be helpful, although I have no idea how to do that.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#66

Post by bloggergirl »

raganwald wrote: post #57
josefresco wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll answer for him, it's your last suggestion It's hypocritical for someone in the US to criticize other nations about their prison systems when we're leading the world in locking people up for crazy shit. That's not to say we can't have an opinion, just not a holier-than-thou attitude about it.

It may sound hypocritical for an American to oppose concentration camps in North Korea based on America's prison-happy justice system, but please keep two things in mind: 1. It is only hypocritical for the speaker if he supports America's prison-happy justice system. If he opposes it, or has misgivings, or is undecided, it is not hypocritical to oppose North Korea. 2. Even if it is hypocrisy, that doesn't diminish hi…

Excellent, well-formed points, raganwald.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#67

Post by dimmuborgir »

muhfuhkuh wrote: post #9

"I can admire China’s growth in infrastructure and technology, it’s pursuit to compete on a global scale, but what good is all that growth if it allows these crimes to go on next door?" I admire America's prominence in infrastructure and technology, it's continuing domination on a global scale, but what good is all that power when over 40,000 people and rising are murdered because of a drug war for which they are com…

Mexico is a functioning democracy and the Mexican drug mafia isn't America's headache.

Whereas, China has a long history of supporting North Korea despite it being a ruthless dictatorship.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#68

Post by Jun8 »

(This is a recurrent fantasy of mine) I think we should have an independent armed forces with the power to intervene in gross violations of human rights, something like the UN but with exponentially more authority (current UN peace keeping forces are a joke, e.g. see Srebrenica massacre, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre, for just one example of many). This force would have the initiative to wage war on authoritative regimes, like the Taliban, Kaddafi, and the one in North Korea.

Currently this is done in a haphazard way, through NATO (e.g. Libya) or countries acting by themselves (e.g. France in Ivory Coast).

Thinking of the practical problems clearly shows that this is an impossible idea. But on a theoretical level, is it valid (e.g. where does this force take its authority from)? I think so.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#69

Post by pstack »

yequalsx wrote: post #10

What I can't understand is how people can visit North Korea and not feel disgusted by giving support for that regime. I believe North Korea is facing another famine this year. Given the conditions in North Korea and the apparent iron grip its regime has on power is it better not to provide food aid? I can't decide for myself if it's better, for the long term, to let the nation starve and not help the people out or to…

It's our way. We do business with China and visit them regularly, even though we know that much of what makes their manufacturing industry so competitive is the use of slave prison labor.

It's weird how we decide what people deserve "liberation" and what people we just shrug our shoulders at and keep supporting, in one form or another, the government that is oppressing them.

Re: Satellite Images of North Korea Prison Camps Find 200,000 Living as Slaves

#70

Post by ry0ohki »

yequalsx wrote: post #10

What I can't understand is how people can visit North Korea and not feel disgusted by giving support for that regime. I believe North Korea is facing another famine this year. Given the conditions in North Korea and the apparent iron grip its regime has on power is it better not to provide food aid? I can't decide for myself if it's better, for the long term, to let the nation starve and not help the people out or to…

Visitors? Don't they only give out like 3000 visas a year?
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