Earlier quoted context omitted.
This in no way compares to what reddit is doing. There is nothing “toxic” or hateful about what they have already been applying this ban to. They have already been removing videos that are not partisan and not fake news. Merely being intellectually curious or examining various issues related to the election, even if they ultimately do not conclude that there was fraud, are being removed. It’s fucking ridiculous.
>They have already been removing videos that are not partisan and not fake news. Source?
The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
831–840 of 981 posts
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#832Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the kinds of "both-sides-ism" that gives centrists a bad reputation. You're basically saying: "everyone uses media to achieve their goals, therefore all sides are equally bad." No. Using misinformation to intentionally disrupt a democratic election is demonstrably dangerous to society. Say what you will about the "establishment," but traditional media still bear some semblance of the truth. Now we're seeing t…
I don’t like the word bothsidesism because it implies that in reality only one side is the bad actor. That is a massive implication considering how casually it’s thrown around. Moreover, it’s used like an accusation. Accusing people of acknowledging that things probably aren’t black and white . Full on groupthink.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#833Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Hacker Ethos is to build your own media platform and stop whining about someone else’s (unless net neutrality is at play).
I'm pretty sure being critical of efforts to censor information is part of the hacker ethos ("information should be free"). I think this is actually why the Twitter approach ("some or all of this tweet is disputed") is a good way to go. You're providing more information—links to people who disagree—rather than hiding information.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#834Earlier quoted context omitted.
Freedoms enumerated in the bill of rights were chosen as a reflection of morality . You’re arguing utilitarianism about what’s a moral issue of the inherent right of people to express themselves.
Yet you oppose certain kinds of speech outright by virtue of the fact that the population has decided via democratic legislation that they should be crimes, presumably because of the harm that they cause. I don't believe that the intention of the framers was that free speech was a good in-and-of itself but that making it difficult (but not impossible) to restrict speech has positive outcomes. At the very least, that…
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#835Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Democrats ran maybe the biggest misinformation campaign in my lifetime following the 2016 election. Massive turmoil and investigations later, it was all found to be false. What is this about “sides” again?
The investigations that lead to convictions were entirely fabricated?
Then we have people like Carter Page, whose name was raked over the coals for years because a FBI lawyer intentionally altered evidence (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/09/us/politics/fbi-ig-report...) showing that far from being a Russian asset, Page had for years briefed the CIA every time he met with suspicious Russians. (Got to love how the Times describes said altering evidence as a "serious error".) You want an actual Russiagate-related indictment and guilty plea? Kevin Clinesmith, said FBI lawyer, is your man.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#836Earlier quoted context omitted.
> lies are toxic to free speech IMHO you're not interested in free speech unless you're willing to defend speech you find repugnant. You don't need to protect speech everyone finds unobjectionable. You need to protect speech that is almost universally opposed. Minorities need protection, majorities don't, and this the basis of the American notion of freedom - insofar as the individual is the smallest minority. > Do y…
You're not really offering any solutions with these platitudes, because if we take your statement to its conclusion, heck it seem we'll just have to live with a third of the population being lulled into supporting potentially violent and seditious people who want to subvert democracy itself. Oh, guess we'll just have to let them or allow the situation to devolve into a civil war.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#837Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a corporate entity to decide what information An AI algorithm.
An algorithm doesn't write or tune itself. This is unnecessary pedantry.
The corporate entity is very much tuned towards that.
Certain videos decrease ad revenue, and ML has identified which topics do so, and have now fed an AI algorithm to ban them.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#838Earlier quoted context omitted.
Calling the opinion of someone you disagree with “weaponized disinformation” doesn’t mean it’s anything but someone else’s opinion. It is chilling that you don’t seem to know the difference between a free Press and an immediate threat to your life.
Facts are not opinions. More and more, people are distrustful of large media organizations, which at least historically have a commitment to doing what they can to report true facts. If you believe that those organizations are untrustworthy, that's your opinion that you have a right to. However, you don't have a right to hold up another set of facts as valid without evidence. The truth doesn't care about your opinion…
They're also not handed down from God. A "fact" is socially constructed, and while the simple-minded among us can afford to pretend that a "fact" is handed down on clay tablets by a deity, they can only do so because they're downstream of a complex and decentralized system for determining what we consider high-confidence enough to communicate as "truth" to those in need of it (eg children). This process includes dissent and "disinformation", and it's baked into everything from our media environment to the scientific method.
> More and more, people are distrustful of large media organizations, which at least historically have a commitment to doing what they can to report true facts
Lol. Forget picking up a history book, all you need to do is read the news for a week as critically as you would read a blog or tweet and you can find plenty of examples of agenda- or simply ignorance-driven inaccuracies in the most mainstream and well-regarded publications. It's ludicrous to claim that media as a whole "does what they can to report facts" and that that inoculates them from being challenged. They've certainly got standards that the average person doesn't, but those standards are barely even commensurate with the responsibility they have, and the divine right to Facts that the ignorant blindly imbue them with. If you're reading any source uncritically and assuming it's Fact, you're doing it wrong.
> However, you don't have a right to hold up another set of facts as valid without evidence.
Another loaded assumption which doesn't hold up on its own. Nobody cares about the case where a wild assertion is made with no attempt at evidence. ~Everyone has "evidence" for their claim. The quality of the evidence varies wildly, both in its internal consistency and in how it comports with external models of the world. What's determining your worldview is what you implicitly dismiss or accept as evidence, based on your own biases and unconscious reasoning (given that your proposal is tantamount to turning off conscious reasoning about the truth). It should be obvious why this is far inferior for anyone with a brain to reading different sources, weighting them by credibility, and synthesizing your own model. You don't need to be particularly smart to be a journalist, and layered on top of that are all kinds of perverse incentives that don't point towards "truth". The notion that you should blindly outsource the process of a final determination of your model of the world is beyond insane.
Was it "fact" when the media universally reported that the pandemic was to be ignored[1], and wrote articles mocking companies for distancing? Was it fact when they universally and confidently rejected masks as useful? Should I have been protected from the "disinformation" that sounded the alarm early, leading me to look into the science and determine that both of these narratives were dead wrong[2], or at the very least suffered from a cultural inability to reason under uncertainty?
The key insight here is that the interaction is two-way: if enough heterodox ideas are on firm footing and contradict your external model of the world, you should be digging into your external model and considering its weaknesses and what to tweak.
The pandemic is an incredibly bizarre time to choose to tear down society's truth-generation system. At every single stage, I've been at least partially at odds with public health advice due to 1) noticing flaws in public health reasoning, 2) exposing myself to contrary narratives/analysis that your definition would call "made-up facts", 3) reading the relevant science, 4) shifting my understanding of the risks. Again and again and again, "the Truth" has caught up to me weeks or even months later, while my friends have blindly been following the narrative off a cliff and exposing themselves to more risk _and_ more restrictions.
Again, I'm aware that most people are not remotely capable of this, and I don't begrudge them that anymore than my basketball teammates begrudge me being too short to dunk or block as well as they do. But the idea that we should tear down the process by which we arrive at truth because having to use their brains make the black-and-white crowd uneasy is infuriating. By all means, continue to uncritically swallow media narratives; you'll be wrong a lot more often, but at least you won't have to use any neurons. But it's insane to decide that nobody else should have access to analysis that isn't pre-approved just because you don't want a reminder that being an adult in a complicated world is difficult.
[1] "Get a grippe, people", as the Washington Post so memorably phrased it in just one example.
[2] This isn't just theoretical: I told the older folks in my extended family to stock up on non-perishables while The Truth was still saying "forget the pandemic myth, go to the parade today!", which meant my parents and other high-risk family members (some in areas hit very hard in the first wave) were able to ride out the risky first month of the pandemic without leaving their house. The reason everyone listened to me without question is because I have a track record of being right when the media is obviously wrong, due to, you guessed it, my exposure to what you'd term "disinformation" and ability to avoid uncritically swallowing whatever Vox tells me is true.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#839Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think YouTube should be applauded for protecting democracy. Why do you think they should be shamed for doing this?
How is YouTube protecting democracy? It seems to me its action silences a group of people in a democracy.
Yes, a group of people attacking democracy.
Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire
#840Earlier quoted context omitted.
Facts are not opinions. More and more, people are distrustful of large media organizations, which at least historically have a commitment to doing what they can to report true facts. If you believe that those organizations are untrustworthy, that's your opinion that you have a right to. However, you don't have a right to hold up another set of facts as valid without evidence. The truth doesn't care about your opinion…
> Facts are not opinions They're also not handed down from God. A "fact" is socially constructed, and while the simple-minded among us can afford to pretend that a "fact" is handed down on clay tablets by a deity, they can only do so because they're downstream of a complex and decentralized system for determining what we consider high-confidence enough to communicate as "truth" to those in need of it (eg children). T…