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Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

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191–200 of 259 posts

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#191

"I determined absolutely that never would I join a company in which finance came before the work or in which bankers or financiers had a part. And further that, if there were no way to get started in the kind of business that I thought could be managed in the interest of the public, then I simply would not get started at all. For my own short experience, together with what I saw going on around me, was quite enough p…

Looked for managerialism, as this is what I think Musk's objection is caused by. Warren Buffet famously said, “I try to invest in businesses that are so wonderful that an idiot can run them. Because sooner or later, one will.”

Institutionalized management rewards a set of skills that are not the ones that create growth, which is sort of the point. They find growth and then "manage," it on behalf of other people who "manage" money. It's the classic principal-agent problem, where managers as a class have enriched themselves at the expense of owners like pensioners, savers, entrepreneurs, and taxpayers.

IMO, the whole managerial problem is caused by a mix of high and complex tax regimes, and low interest rates. The former is a make work policy for a clerical worker class, and the latter means banks become the cultural and political centre of everything. It causes the economic shift from making things people want, to doing things nobody wants.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#193

He is onto something there. Bean counting is useful and companies cannot survive without good cashflow, but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. If one company's de facto mission statement is "We want to grow our market by 8.2 per cent and give our bosses higher Christmas bonuses" and another one comes and says "Guys, we want to fly to fscking Mars!", c…

The book "Good Strategy, Bad Strategy" discusses this. There seems to be a group of people that think that "grow by 8.2 percent" is a strategy. It is not, it is a goal. Companies with a good strategy will eat the lunch of a company who doesn't know what a strategy is.

Great distinction.

The anti-MBA movement is really trying to redefine what an MBA means. Bad business decisions are "M.B.A.-ization". Good business decisions are... something else. Therefore, MBAs are bad.

There are plenty of bad MBAs running around, but it's no different than how we also have plenty of bad software developers out there despite having C.S. degrees. In both cases, the worst offenders are over-represented in the talent pool because they're more frequently pushed out of companies, while the best talent is locked up with high compensation.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#194

> “I think there might be too many M.B.A.s running companies,” the Tesla Inc. chief executive said. “There should be more focus on the product or service itself, less time on board meetings, less time on financials.” > Many business-school leaders shot back, saying that Mr. Musk’s comments don’t match the reality of what is taught in M.B.A. programs and that more students than ever who are pursuing the graduate degre…

Who in their right mind would trust the opinion of school leaders so far as the value of schools is concerned? Yet we routinely do.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#195
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way unemployment is measured both practically and in the abstract (a PhD working as a cleaner is still employed) too subtle for a blanket dismissal like that.

No doubt it is complicated. Yet I was replying to a claim that there is not enough work, presented with no evidence or argument, that contradicts the most basic employment statistic. I think the burden is on the original claim.

Not really - I think you missed the point of the original claim, it wasn't meant to be interpreted literally. In this case, "not enough work" does not translate to "not enough jobs". It translates to tons of useless jobs that employ people to count beans and create powerpoint presentations.

Perhaps the original claim would've been better phrased as "not enough real/useful/impactful work".

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#196
post #29
post #19

FAANG - i think in this list only Google and Apple are run by MBAs.

Part of the acronym in spirit: Satya also has an MBA

Looking at AMZN beyond Bezos (who, let's not forget, worked in finance before he founded AMZN): Jassy went to HBS and JAW to Sloan. Since they are both 'CEOs', feel like they need to be taken into account, similar to how it's correct to regard Sandberg as the one who 'runs' FB on a day to day basis.

Thus amongst FAANG its only N which is not 'run' by an MBA. Sarantos, who runs content, is a college dropout. Yes, Hastings does have a MSCS from Stanford- but he was also a liberal arts undergrad (Bowdoin) and a Peace Corps volunteer. Of all of them, he's got the most interesting story to me.

This isn't to say MBA's haven't screwed things up- of course they have. But so have engineers. Apparently the idea of engineers building cool tech with no use case has never occurred to anyone else here.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#197
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

I would invest in SpaceX in a heartbeat if I could. The financial markets have both very low risk investment options (e.g. government bonds) and very high risk investments (e.g. options), and both ends are attractive to a range of investors. I would agree that you can't pivot a company like Microsoft to a high-risk strategy with uncertain payoff; their existing shareholders would rebel. But if you have this strategy…

> I would invest in SpaceX in a heartbeat if I could.

It's easy to say when you're coming after they've built it.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#198
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contributing to culture ship has long sailed away with the extreme capitalistic society of ours. If there was any kind of cushion (specifically with healthcare), non-vocational education would make sense. But with our current society, life would be futile without real world white collar skills.

Could you refine a bit more what you mean by “extreme capitalistic society”? At first blush, I would guess we have a slightly less capitalistic society than, say 200 years ago, but a more industrialized, consumeristic society.

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#199

He is onto something there. Bean counting is useful and companies cannot survive without good cashflow, but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. If one company's de facto mission statement is "We want to grow our market by 8.2 per cent and give our bosses higher Christmas bonuses" and another one comes and says "Guys, we want to fly to fscking Mars!", c…

That reminds me of my time at IBM under Palmisano a decade ago. His goal was to increase the share price by x%. It was no secret one of the strategies was to cut jobs in high cost regions (US) and hire in low cost regions. You'd actually hear this in all hands meetings. It was shockingly shameless.

>> It was no secret one of the strategies was to cut jobs in high cost regions (US) and hire in low cost regions

What exactly is wrong with that strategy? You would prefer to own stock in the company that employed people in a high cost region when they could hire someone with the same skill set in a low cost region?

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#200
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. There's 3 things that I judge an employer by 1) Sector the company is in (Space, electric cars - Yay) 2) Revenue/Growth of the company (pie grows, does your share?) 3) Company culture (that's catch-all, but if you want a negative see that "don't hire the hot girl" guy) A lot of ways I care more about the sector…

> "don't hire the hot girl" guy Is that a reference? Can you point me to it?

> Is that a reference? Can you point me to it?

Yes. There was a lot more than this tweet, but there are screenshots.

https://twitter.com/spakhm/status/1333524631219822600 + https://twitter.com/silvestricodes/status/133354701095220838...

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