Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#81

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

> “I think there might be too many M.B.A.s running companies,” the Tesla Inc. chief executive said. “There should be more focus on the product or service itself, less time on board meetings, less time on financials.”

> Many business-school leaders shot back, saying that Mr. Musk’s comments don’t match the reality of what is taught in M.B.A. programs and that more students than ever who are pursuing the graduate degree are interested in entrepreneurship and tech rather than Wall Street.

That last part seems perfectly tone deaf. "What do you mean, too much time focused on financials? We took jobs outside the finance industry! Isn't that enough?"

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#82

Post by bobthepanda » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:33 PM UTC

jjk166 wrote: post #72

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. This just means people won't be taking risks in places like SF. There's plenty of cheap housing out there. Just not in places where the market is driven up by supply constraints and money printers. And before anyone says "hurr durr, nobody wants to live in BFE Alabama" I'm talking about places l…

You need decently large populations of risk takers living in reasonably close proximity to create an environment like silicon valley. There are plenty of places that have low cost of living, but as soon as you create that environment, the costs of living will skyrocket. Further, while costs may be lower than is SF, costs are rising nearly everywhere faster than inflation. For example in Cleveland the median home pric…

Nitpick: 2008 after the worst housing crisis in generations is not a reasonable baseline, that is the floor.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#83

Post by spamizbad » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

johntb86 wrote: post #28

_jal wrote: post #6

Finally, he says something I can agree with. MBAs are for optimizing stable firms. They're walking death for startups, I personally have seen it happen.

Even for stable firms they can be death. "Lights Out: Pride, Delusion, and the Fall of General Electric" makes the case that the MBA mindset (exemplified by Jeff Immelt) of focusing on finances and acquisitions while ignoring the actual products has been leading to the downfall of GE.

GE was burning the furniture to heat the house - what should be seen as a red flag - but nobody cared because there was just so much furniture it didn't seem like a problem until there was nowhere left to sit.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#84

Post by bluedevil2k » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:34 PM UTC

lazyjones wrote: post #54

orky56 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. MBA's aren't meant for 0 to 1. They're meant to optimize and sustain business models with the foundation of innovation and revolutionary ideas. Companies that only stick to one or the other are doomed, or require their industry to be that much more technical or business focused.

How is this working for other car makers, who are full of MBAs? Elon comes along and takes their market share.

Electric cars are 2.6% of cars sold, and Tesla is 18% of that EV market. That's not really any proof that the MBA's are "ruining" other car markers, is it?

1 - https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2020 2 - https://electrek.co/2020/10/30/tesla-tsla-market-share-globa...

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#85

Post by TRcontrarian » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:35 PM UTC

nbardy wrote: post #46

mhaberl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

Our society has plenty of Elon Musks. Their being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out people can repeat "the correct answer". Heterodox thinking is a liability not an asset in Academia now. Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. Our society has been designed to squeeze out cash flow and it's smothering our creatives…

Hi Eric

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#86

Post by Armisael16 » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:36 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #50

sixQuarks wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you’re getting your info from. Musk and his brother started and sold zip2 for millions, while living a very frugal existence. He used that money to start x.com, which merged with PayPal, sold to eBay. He used that money to start SpaceX and invest in Tesla.

The Musk's families wealth is common knowledge and widely reported[0][1][2]. But more to the point Elon and Kimbal's dad funded Zip2, which completely undercuts your point. > In Ashlee Vance's biography of Elon Musk, it is claimed that the Musks' father, Errol Musk, provided them with US$28,000 during this time, but Elon Musk later denied this. He later clarified that his dad provided around 10% of US$200,000 as part…

The emerald mine story is false, as your second link says.

Please stop just regurgitating crap you read on Twitter.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#87

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:37 PM UTC

TRcontrarian wrote: post #85

nbardy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our society has plenty of Elon Musks. Their being snuffed out by a academic system designed to churn out people can repeat "the correct answer". Heterodox thinking is a liability not an asset in Academia now. Along with the fact that most people don't even have the option to take risk with the massive increase of cost of housing. Our society has been designed to squeeze out cash flow and it's smothering our creatives…

Hi Eric

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#88

Post by ta988 » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

johntb86 wrote: post #28

_jal wrote: post #6

Finally, he says something I can agree with. MBAs are for optimizing stable firms. They're walking death for startups, I personally have seen it happen.

Even for stable firms they can be death. "Lights Out: Pride, Delusion, and the Fall of General Electric" makes the case that the MBA mindset (exemplified by Jeff Immelt) of focusing on finances and acquisitions while ignoring the actual products has been leading to the downfall of GE.

Look at firms like Danaher in the biotech, same thing. Buy sell buy sell. 0 value added and lot of wreck in the path.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#89

Post by wongarsu » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

mhaberl wrote: post #40

inglor_cz wrote: post #2

He is onto something there. Bean counting is useful and companies cannot survive without good cashflow, but it should not become Mission A of the company, or engineering (and other) talent will look elsewhere. If one company's de facto mission statement is "We want to grow our market by 8.2 per cent and give our bosses higher Christmas bonuses" and another one comes and says "Guys, we want to fly to fscking Mars!", c…

He is in a very specific situation, he is the founder and the CEO and has a lot of money to burn. He wants to do big things and he can do them. A lot of companies have stock holders who expect some return every year without risking too much. As a society we sure would be better off if had more Elon Musk type company leaders, but for that too happen we would need more exceptional people like him (not going to happen)…

I would invest in SpaceX in a heartbeat if I could.

The financial markets have both very low risk investment options (e.g. government bonds) and very high risk investments (e.g. options), and both ends are attractive to a range of investors. I would agree that you can't pivot a company like Microsoft to a high-risk strategy with uncertain payoff; their existing shareholders would rebel. But if you have this strategy from the start then you only acquire shareholders who are fine with this kind of strategy, and I don't see why that shouldn't work out.

Re: Elon Musk Decries ‘M.B.A.-ization’ of America

#90

Post by bluedevil2k » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

nashashmi wrote: post #61

What’s the point of an MBA? Asking anyone this question who pursues the degree or has pursued the degree or insists on its value, often gives a non-answer. Like the following: * it helps with networking. * it helps with promotion. * it helps with advancement in career. * it helps with your resume. Boiling it down, “I can show off better and tout an imaginary quality”. If I was a person who was self employed or runnin…

"I've come to the conclusion that a degree I don't have and have never taken any classes in cannot help anyone and is a big negative for a person". Seems a very broad generalization, doesn't it?