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DoorDash from Application to IPO

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#191

Post by Cookingboy »

jonas21 wrote: post #177
moxdahfox8 wrote: post #144

The dichotomy between this massive IPO making the founding team and investors rich and local restaurants shuttering in record numbers (partly due to losing 25% off the top to DD with no other options) is startling. A small case study on how inequality is growing in our country and tech like this is pouring fuel on the fire

Alternately, you could look at this as a dichotomy between local restaurants shuttering in record numbers due to inadequate government support for small businesses during a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic, and tech like this providing some of them with a lifeline to stay open (while also making the founding team and investors rich). A small case study in how the world is not necessarily a zero-sum game?

Seriously, I fail to imagine how the fate of those local restaurants would have been better if DoorDash didn't exist.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#192

Post by mod »

wsatb wrote: post #102
rubyn00bie wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This +1000 My food is regularly delivered incorrectly or missing and they refuse to refund the fees. What is beyond fucked up to me; is that they increase the fees based on what I buy. So they charge me for something and then refuse to refund it. I just don't know how it's even legal to bill me for something and then not provide it. I need to write my congressman again and state senators about this shit again. Oh the…

I have many complaints about DoorDash, mainly that the platform has degraded a lot as they've grown (customer service used to be top notch), and that their tipping policy was not clear for years. But I've used it for 5-6 years, and for a chunk of that almost daily (I'm lazy), and they've never refused to refund anything that was incorrect/missing.

My nephew recently had a debacle where his food was not delivered at all--$80 worth of sushi.

They tried to offer him a $45 refund. Then they tried to offer him a refund for just the food prices.

He had to threaten to charge back before they refunded everything.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#193

Post by tibiahurried »

vincentmarle wrote: post #148

My 2 cts on the long term play of Doordash: The long term trend is that (primarily take-out) restaurants will decline and be replaced by ghost kitchens. The unit economics of ghost kitchens is much better than paying rent for prime real estate. You can run a ghost kitchen from a warehouse. This trend was already underway before covid [1] (see also Travis Kalanick's investments in this space) but has been 10x accelera…

Many underestimate that great food must be served as soon as ready. Try to deliver a filet mignon, pasta, steak, burgers, really .. anything, by the time you get it, you will be chewing a shoe sole.

So far, the only thing that I can order and enjoy is : sushi.

Any other food just sucks! It is cold, not as juice as it should be, not enjoyable at all. Often, you will have to put it back in the oven and end up overcooking it.

Perhaps it is me, I am used to high standard/quality food.

I simple can't see DoorDash replacing restaurants.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#194

Post by nicoffeine »

SMAAART wrote: post #158
moxdahfox8 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small group of people (investors and early employees) pull in a ton of money while a big group of people (restaurant owners and employees) face worse economic outcomes. Similarly, private mkt investors get insane outcomes while retail investors end up buying at peak prices and less information. I'm not saying what DD did was unfair or unethical. We're just moving quickly to a very unequal society and this is a small…

Thank you for the explanation, so ok inequality of outcomes, but not inequality of opportunity. 2 more questions: 1. How is this a "problem"? 2. How would you go about solving it?

> How is this a "problem"?

"[a] Stanford professor posits that throughout history, economic inequality has only been rectified by one of the 'Four Horsemen of Leveling': warfare, revolution, state collapse and plague."[1]

You can hang on to imaginative phrases like "inequality of opportunity" or an economy that reliably delivers food. I think most people are going to go with the second option.

[1] https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/09/10/can-inequal...

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#195

Post by kevmo314 »

panzagl wrote: post #163
ajmadesc wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but with all that cycling they won't need to visit the doctor anytime soon so they save a lot of money not paying for health insurance. /s

Do you know any cyclists? All the ones I know have had accidents ranging from bone-breaking to fatal.

I was a cyclist for another tech company that used cyclists to deliver in NYC, AMA.

Delivery people are truly neglected at these companies. A quarter of my wage went to recovering the calories I spent on my shift. I'm lucky that I didn't need that job, I only took it to experience being a bike messenger.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#196

Post by moxdahfox8 »

jonas21 wrote: post #177
moxdahfox8 wrote: post #144

The dichotomy between this massive IPO making the founding team and investors rich and local restaurants shuttering in record numbers (partly due to losing 25% off the top to DD with no other options) is startling. A small case study on how inequality is growing in our country and tech like this is pouring fuel on the fire

Alternately, you could look at this as a dichotomy between local restaurants shuttering in record numbers due to inadequate government support for small businesses during a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic, and tech like this providing some of them with a lifeline to stay open (while also making the founding team and investors rich). A small case study in how the world is not necessarily a zero-sum game?

It would be a lifeline if restaurants made money from Doordash orders. Some do and for them it's been a lifeline.

But many restaurants don't make any profit after the 25% cut. Pre-covid you could write it off as a marketing expense but when in-person dining disappears you're faced with option to close or keep open and make a loss or no money on every DD you get.

This is partly why 110,000 restaurants have closed since the pandemic

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#197

Post by bsder »

strombofulous wrote: post #190
bsder wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers were so underpaid they were stealing food . Many of the restaurants had to repackage their food in such a way that it could be sealed so that they could deny claims for theft. That's not the sign of well-paid employees.

I mean, there's a lot of reasons they might have been stealing food. To presume it must have been because they were so poor and not because they had delicious smelling food in their car and a near-guarantee that theft wouldn't be noticed is, imo, disingenuous To say that the only reason someone steals food is for hunger is to say that nobody has ever stolen food for any reason other than hunger. Otherwise, there woul…

Dude. People don't steal food if they're not hungry.

You are trying to justify THEFT.

Not IP theft. Not Copyright theft. Real, actual, physical theft.

Of someone's food. And there was so much theft that companies retooled their packaging.

Go back and contemplate on your ethics. Like ... a lot.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#198

Post by jasondigitized »

bsder wrote: post #164
vincentmarle wrote: post #148

My 2 cts on the long term play of Doordash: The long term trend is that (primarily take-out) restaurants will decline and be replaced by ghost kitchens. The unit economics of ghost kitchens is much better than paying rent for prime real estate. You can run a ghost kitchen from a warehouse. This trend was already underway before covid [1] (see also Travis Kalanick's investments in this space) but has been 10x accelera…

> You can run a ghost kitchen from a warehouse. This trend was already underway before covid And it was already failing before Covid. Delivery requires proximity --every minute in delivery is a minute your food is shittier. And warehouses aren't proximate to residential in most places. Why do you think food trucks became a thing (and even they were declining)? They changed "proximate" to "immediate".

That's why you open food trucks that serve as ghost kitchens and serve food that travels well. All variables completely in your control as a food entrepreneur.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#199

Post by cactus2093 »

moxdahfox8 wrote: post #196
jonas21 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternately, you could look at this as a dichotomy between local restaurants shuttering in record numbers due to inadequate government support for small businesses during a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic, and tech like this providing some of them with a lifeline to stay open (while also making the founding team and investors rich). A small case study in how the world is not necessarily a zero-sum game?

It would be a lifeline if restaurants made money from Doordash orders. Some do and for them it's been a lifeline. But many restaurants don't make any profit after the 25% cut. Pre-covid you could write it off as a marketing expense but when in-person dining disappears you're faced with option to close or keep open and make a loss or no money on every DD you get. This is partly why 110,000 restaurants have closed sinc…

How exactly is tech pouring fuel on the fire though? If DD simply didn't exist, what better option would these closing restaurants suddenly have?

Like you said here, with DD around it does give some restaurants a lifeline they wouldn't otherwise have. Plus the government gets more tax revenue, over time some large percentage of the currently $60B valuation created by Doordash, which could be used to help the rest of those hit hardest by the pandemic if our democracy wasn't being held hostage by one Mitch McConnell.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#200

Post by mbesto »

darkwizard42 wrote: post #171
mbesto wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They just IPOed to the tune of $70B market cap... You must not be aware of what happened around the year 2000.

If you look at their S-1 there isn't a chance of this looking like what happened in year 2000. Way too much capital, way too low interest rates, and a real path to profitability

> real path to profitability

You had me up until here. This is WIDELY debatable.

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