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DoorDash from Application to IPO

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#161

Post by SMAAART »

AlexandrB wrote: post #153
SMAAART wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A small case study on how inequality .. Can you please explain this to me? Inequality of ... what? Opportunity or outcome?

Seems to me that it's both. I don't see VCs pouring billions in investments into new restaurants.

> I don't see VCs pouring billions in investments into new restaurants.

Serious investors play in their niche: Restaurant investors don't invest in tech either.

If your statement outlines a problem, how would you go about solving it?

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#162

Post by kongolongo »

SMAAART wrote: post #147
moxdahfox8 wrote: post #144

The dichotomy between this massive IPO making the founding team and investors rich and local restaurants shuttering in record numbers (partly due to losing 25% off the top to DD with no other options) is startling. A small case study on how inequality is growing in our country and tech like this is pouring fuel on the fire

> A small case study on how inequality .. Can you please explain this to me? Inequality of ... what? Opportunity or outcome?

Yeah I'm not sure this is a great example of inequality either. Most independent restaurants fail, I don't recall the exact stats off the top of my head but very very few last >5 years and the majority fail within the first year (this was before DD or any similar services) and yes maybe tech pressures have exacerbated that, but I'm not sure the stats on that are conclusive.

Anecdotally apps are how I and a lot of people I know have come to discover or order from many independent restaurants for the first time. Even with a 25% cut, without knowing the exact numbers of how many new customers these services introduce, its not that easy to say that big tech boogey monsters are destroying independent restaurants, especially since its a fairly risky venture to start with.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#163

Post by panzagl »

ajmadesc wrote: post #118
uptown wrote: post #57

"... a delivery courier’s income, which ranges from $300 to $800 a week for those who work 12-hour days, seven days a week." https://www.thecity.nyc/work/2020/12/6/22157730/nyc-food-del...

Yeah but with all that cycling they won't need to visit the doctor anytime soon so they save a lot of money not paying for health insurance. /s

Do you know any cyclists? All the ones I know have had accidents ranging from bone-breaking to fatal.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#164

Post by bsder »

vincentmarle wrote: post #148

My 2 cts on the long term play of Doordash: The long term trend is that (primarily take-out) restaurants will decline and be replaced by ghost kitchens. The unit economics of ghost kitchens is much better than paying rent for prime real estate. You can run a ghost kitchen from a warehouse. This trend was already underway before covid [1] (see also Travis Kalanick's investments in this space) but has been 10x accelera…

> You can run a ghost kitchen from a warehouse. This trend was already underway before covid

And it was already failing before Covid.

Delivery requires proximity--every minute in delivery is a minute your food is shittier. And warehouses aren't proximate to residential in most places.

Why do you think food trucks became a thing (and even they were declining)? They changed "proximate" to "immediate".

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#165

Post by localhost »

vincentmarle wrote: post #148

My 2 cts on the long term play of Doordash: The long term trend is that (primarily take-out) restaurants will decline and be replaced by ghost kitchens. The unit economics of ghost kitchens is much better than paying rent for prime real estate. You can run a ghost kitchen from a warehouse. This trend was already underway before covid [1] (see also Travis Kalanick's investments in this space) but has been 10x accelera…

Another take on this is that restaurants are in the entertainment business, not the food business. Post COVID people are going to have a lot of pent up demand for entertainment that isn't in their homes.

So perhaps this is more of a complement to restaurants rather than a replacement. But is DASH valued as a complement? But then again price is king right now, not value :)

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#166

Post by akarma »

dmitriid wrote: post #139
akarma wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the history of the space is consistent with delivery drivers being consistently underpaid If that's the case, how can one say that, for all of history, they have been underpaid? What is the standard that defines underpaid? If we agree that this is an issue that DoorDash has done better on than historical alternatives, should they receive as much flak as they do? > With Doordash alone multiple lawsuits against it fo…

> If that's the case, how can one say that, for all of history, they have been underpaid? What is the standard that defines underpaid? Your original statement was: "the common view of "underpaid" being a view that isn't consistent with the history of the space." And this statement is false. Now you're trying to wiggle out of this by pretending that "being underpaid" is undefined because we haven't decided the concept…

> Your original statement was: "the common view of "underpaid" being a view that isn't consistent with the history of the space."

No wriggling. :)

To me, that statement would be backed by evidence that DoorDash allows drivers to make more than they previously made as drivers for specific restaurants.

To you, that wouldn’t satisfy the notion that they are fairly paid, because you believe they have always been underpaid.

I’m looking at “underpaid” through a lens of historical data, but you’re looking at it through a different lens, so I asked how you define underpaid.

Do you see what I mean?

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#167

Post by bsder »

908B64B197 wrote: post #114
akarma wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in DoorDash's YC application, they pitched that delivery drivers wanted to make more money. When the drivers worked for one restaurant only, they would be sitting around most of the time waiting for an order. By delivering for many restaurants at once on DoorDash, they would be able to make more money and have less idle time. I'd love to see data, but I can intuitively imagine this being true, and the common…

I like how the drivers are always depicted as underpaid yet... they flock to the app! If it paid more to have a minimum wage job, why are there so many drivers on the platform?

Drivers were so underpaid they were stealing food.

Many of the restaurants had to repackage their food in such a way that it could be sealed so that they could deny claims for theft.

That's not the sign of well-paid employees.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#168

Post by tempest_ »

bsder wrote: post #164
vincentmarle wrote: post #148

My 2 cts on the long term play of Doordash: The long term trend is that (primarily take-out) restaurants will decline and be replaced by ghost kitchens. The unit economics of ghost kitchens is much better than paying rent for prime real estate. You can run a ghost kitchen from a warehouse. This trend was already underway before covid [1] (see also Travis Kalanick's investments in this space) but has been 10x accelera…

> You can run a ghost kitchen from a warehouse. This trend was already underway before covid And it was already failing before Covid. Delivery requires proximity --every minute in delivery is a minute your food is shittier. And warehouses aren't proximate to residential in most places. Why do you think food trucks became a thing (and even they were declining)? They changed "proximate" to "immediate".

Yeah, I dont order from food apps too often because a lot food doesn't travel well.

Most fried things are soggy by the time they reach you.

Many people don't seem to care though.

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#169

Post by graaben »

strictnein wrote: post #21

Another example of tech "disruption", which typically just means siphoning money from an established system and adding little in return.

What I just can't understand about companies like DoorDash, Uber Eats etc. is that it seems to be a lose-lose-lose proposition. It's more expensive for the consumer with restaurants often raising prices and delivery fees etc; the restaurants make less money per order; and the delivery drivers are often making less than minimum wage and rapidly depreciating their cars. And on top of that, these companies themselves are mostly unprofitable!

So who is benefiting here? Where is the true value for society being created? Yes I can get any restaurant meal delivered to my home in 30-45 min, but is that one small benefit really enough to sustain a $60bn market cap?

Re: DoorDash from Application to IPO

#170

Post by darkwizard42 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #33
darkwizard42 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just IPOed to the tune of $70B market cap... This comment really comes across as out of touch... The company just went public and based on their S-1 has been massively growing even pre-pandemic! (both huge measures of success)

It's not out of touch to question metrics when it appears a company was dumped on public investors with no profitability in sight. Growth is not success; profit is, growth is simply the mechanism by which you're supposed to reach profitability. If we define success as cashing out, sure, success. It feels like the delta in journey between building a sustainable, profitable business that handsomely rewards you at your…

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1792789/000119312520...

F-4 they are clearly on a path to profitability...

It seems silly to even focus on profitability at IPO when credit is so cheap. Growth trajectory is rewarded and based on the S-1 they are growing in a healthy enough fashion. This is VERY different than WeWork which had massive amounts of debt on their books and didn't have a plan out.

Again, if you keep getting hung up on profitability you aren't really realizing what stage Doordash is at or the maturity level by which companies are expected to be profitable

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