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Elon Musk moves to Texas

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Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long have you been out of Texas? I think we know people aren't coming to Texas to live in Tyler; They are moving to the cities, Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, which are all diverse, and have large gay communities. Even Tyler has changed. (old article, but still) https://www.advocate.com/society/activism/2009/09/29/gays-ta...

But that's rather my point: if you're living just in the larger metro areas, you're choosing to insulate yourself from the rampant discrimination and bigotry that, numerically, forms the bulk of the electorate and shape the cultural mindset. To be clear, that's not a bad thing that people make that choice; I would, were in that position. If Texas voters will finally vote in someone who is more like Ann Richards than…

I think you might be dismissing that even in suburban California, things are much closer to suburban Texas.

California may seem like it's 100% different, but that's mostly because people only know San Francisco, LA, and the other coastal cities. CA has its other parts, too.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't those federal subsidies though?

California subsidized every Tesla sold. I'm not complaining about it but it should be on record that California helped to give Tesla a boost. It was definitely the right move. I can't think of another state in this country where Tesla would have thrived nearly as well as California. Do you think Tesla would have done well in Texas back in 2003? All those oil guzzlers would have laughed Elon Musk out of the state.

In what way did California subsidize them? The federal tax credit is for all EV and has not applied to Tesla in 2 years.

> All those oil guzzlers would have laughed Elon Musk out of the state.

We are talking about global production not sure how that matters if people in Texas didn't like them.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#543
post #158

Pretty interesting to see this move makes people so salty. There does seem to be a trend of people fleeing California, I dont know enough about the situation out there to comment on whether or not its valid. I suspect something must be going on for several high profile folks moving out. And before you bash Texas, its not perfect. But its pretty diverse, and it seems that folks with opposing viewpoints can still coexi…

My birth certificate says "Texas" across the top and people have been "fleeing California" to Texas for as long as I've been alive. There's nothing special about Musk; he just happens to be high-profile about it and managed to extract more from California before decamping to a "cheap" state than several of those who came before him. I disagree with your assessment that Texas has wide acceptance for opposing viewpoint…

In my experience, people saying “opposing viewpoints can coexist unlike California” really mean “conservative viewpoints are the norm here”. That might not be the case for the GP comment, but it honestly reads that way. It’s a common complaint and refrain from conservatives at the moment.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean abatements & subsidies required to push "clean" vehicle policies that are among the most aggressive in the world? Without Tesla & CA's policies, auto electrification would be at least a decade behind what it is today... Being at the forefront of environmental policy has real costs.

Paris climate targets will have done far more to push EV forward than Tesla/CA. Most governments e.g EU, UK, China all looking to curtail/ban ICE cars within the next few decades. And of course this has resulted in car manufacturers rapidly pushing EV cars.

And mass market EVs weren't really a mass-market thing until Tesla pushed the luxury brands to compete with them.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Konrad Zuse was one of the pioneers of computing. He was a German who worked under the Nazis. IBM did a lot of profitable business with the Nazis. You used a device based in part on work done by and for Nazis to post that message, if you posted it from the USA you'll have posted it "from stolen land" according to the more "progressive" elements in society. The clothes you're wearing are probably partly or wholly made…

your entire thesis is more or less: "it happened, get over it?" night doesn't become day in a single instant. your long list mapping products you use to the horrors of their creation shows that you obviously grok the gravity of the situation. choosing to be flippant about it just damns you even more. you could definitely stop buying nazi cars, conflict diamonds, child labor iPhones... pay reparations or return stolen…

> night doesn't become day in a single instant.

How about 75 years?

> shows that you obviously grok the gravity of the situation.

The situation is thus: humans are one mean species, capable of great deeds of kindness as well as atrociously horrible deeds of evil. Throughout history people have done both, places where horrible deeds were done - say during the rise of the Mogul empire in India or the Turkish genocides (yes, plural, the Armenian genocide was only the last in a row stretching over a period of almost 40 years) on Christians in the Ottoman empire, the atrocities of the GULAG system in the Soviet Union and probably even during the cultural revolution in Mao's China - also showed people risking their lives to save those who were being persecuted, usually putting those who tried to save people in dire risk themselves.

Many people have learned to live with the knowledge that back in time ranging from centuries to a few decades their ancestors were subjected to annihilation, torture, murder, eradication, extermination, marginalisation... the list goes on. Those people have not forgotten but they generally realise that those who committed the atrocities are long gone and that the currently living generation of their ancestors' persecutors are not to blame for their ancestor's crimes. Those who do not realise this end up in generation-spanning blood feuds and vendettas. Wars were started over such things, leading to even more atrocities, sowing the seeds for yet more wars.

So yes, you can buy a Volkswagen without feeling the need to call it a "Nazi car" just like you can buy a Mitsubishi without calling it a "Jap car", an IBM computer without labelling it a "racist computer", eat a south-African "Outspan" orange without referring to it as an "apartheid orange". You may want to leave that iPhone on the shelves to signal your discontent with the circumstances in which it was produced because that is a problem which is happening right now instead of centuries ago. It is, in other words, something which can be changed in the here and the now. The same goes for that example of conflict diamonds you gave, nobody should buy those or any product they are part of.

Calling Volkswagen a "Nazi car" does not achieve any purpose other than signalling to others that you consider yourself to be virtuous, "not a Nazi", in your own words expecting everyone to give you kudos for it. Most people consider themselves not to be Nazis without needing to call out Volkswagen, Agfa (does that still exist? It was a spin-off from IG-Farben), Mercedes or Thyssen-Krupp. That does not mean those people are not aware of the history of those companies, it just means they can separate the past from the present. It does not mean they condone the crimes committed by those companies, it just means they realise that Volkswagen in 2020 is run by different people, with different goals, different outlooks on life, staffed by different people than it was back when Hitler and Porsche came with the first "Volkswagen" (people's car).

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#546
post #8

Criticizes California for excessive regulation, then moves to a state where it's illegal for Tesla to sell its cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes#T...

Interesting... do you think it could be part of a strategy to get Texas to change this law?

They have been trying for many years now. Its a consideration, but a pretty small one in terms of all the things that need to be considered.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#547
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My birth certificate says "Texas" across the top and people have been "fleeing California" to Texas for as long as I've been alive. There's nothing special about Musk; he just happens to be high-profile about it and managed to extract more from California before decamping to a "cheap" state than several of those who came before him. I disagree with your assessment that Texas has wide acceptance for opposing viewpoint…

I grew up in Tyler but have lived in Austin for 15 years. I don't mean to be argumentative but you seem to be comparing Small town Texas with "Big City" California. I've vacationed in smaller towns in California and the conservative nature of those areas remind me a lot of Tyler,Texas.

Your onto something, and I think another crucial detail is that the small, southern town I grew up in is more tolerant of gay folks now than the vast majority of big cities were 20 years ago. There's been such a massive shift in tolerance towards gay humans across the entire culture that comparing any place I go to NOW vs where I grew up WHEN I was a kid is a massive difference.

Compared to 2020 Anywhere, 2000 Anywhere was a very bigoted place.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make any sense. Why is the quality of life poorer in California compared to Texas when California has: Better schools across all grades, better universities and better weather? Perhaps there are other factors? Do demographics play a role perchance? From Wikipedia: 1) According to 2018 US Census Bureau estimates, California's population was 59.5% White (36.6% Non-Hispanic White), 14.7% Asian, 13.8% Some O…

The average income in California 25% higher than Texas (60k vs 48k), but taxes and costs are more than 25% higher in California. The typical home value of homes in California is $599,159. [1] The typical home value of homes in Texas is $224,065 California sales tax rate of 7.25% is higher than that of any other state, and its top marginal income tax rate of 13.3% is the highest state income tax rate in the country. T…

I do not doubt or dispute that Texas is cheaper to live in. It was the "significant" quality of life for children statement struck me as a red flag. It's a form of WASP signaling I've seen many times before (I may be a WASP too...)

It's a particularly egregious statement given that people the world over (myself included) would love to retire in California some day due to the wonderful weather, the abundance of high-quality food and the lovely ocean next door, not to mention the world-class in-state universities, and the abundant employment opportunities. Yes, SF is expensive, and perhaps it makes sense to move out, but leaving California altogether is a whole other kettle of fish. Resorting to Texas as being significantly better given its poor social safety net, open-carry laws, wide variation in schooling based on neighbourhood wealth, well "significantly better" starts to look downright fishy.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's rather my point: if you're living just in the larger metro areas, you're choosing to insulate yourself from the rampant discrimination and bigotry that, numerically, forms the bulk of the electorate and shape the cultural mindset. To be clear, that's not a bad thing that people make that choice; I would, were in that position. If Texas voters will finally vote in someone who is more like Ann Richards than…

Is that really any different from any other state, including California? Rural vs urban culture are completely different in every state in America. As Californians we still insulate ourselves from rural culture. The only difference in California those counties don't form the bulk of the electorate while in Texas they do. We still have the same problem: a cultural divide between rural and urban.

It is. I've spent time in most of the U.S., minus Alaska and a few north eastern states, and some states have very distinct boundaries between city and rural atmosphere. In some states, I found places I was not supposed to be and it was made abundantly clear to me. There are some places that saying the wrong words or having the wrong beliefs can be incredibly dangerous. The degree of difference varies from state to state and also seems to change based more heavily on latitude. Not sure I understand why it works out that way.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#550
post #158

Pretty interesting to see this move makes people so salty. There does seem to be a trend of people fleeing California, I dont know enough about the situation out there to comment on whether or not its valid. I suspect something must be going on for several high profile folks moving out. And before you bash Texas, its not perfect. But its pretty diverse, and it seems that folks with opposing viewpoints can still coexi…

No one’s salty or cares.

The fact is Musk extracted all his value from California then “fled” to Texas.

He’s a parasite.

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