EU countries team up for semiconductor push
451–460 of 665 posts
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What factors make you want to get out? As an American who's spent a lot of time in both the US and Continental Europe (and elsewhere) I don't see any terrific suck. At the risk of speaking out of turn, I've traveled extensively outside the US and befriended a lot of folks and had discussions on this topic with them. I would summarize my findings as such: 1. Economic Mobility: In Europe economic mobility, on average…
Worth noting that many Americans I know in Europe, have no plans to ever come back, they don't see USA as an option anymore once experienced life here. Source: work for FAANG, I see many one way relocations US>EU, not so much other way around. Furthermore: 1. yeah, triple the money, quadruple the life costs, and no social security safety net, or at least poor one. 2. what? 3. FREEDOM - very US centric view on the "fr…
I think there's inherent selection bias in the way we perceive this: we see someone "leaving" only if we're involved with them at the moment they depart; we see someone "arriving" if we encounter them any time after they came our way.
EU to US immigration is about 60,000 per year. It's about 20,000 in the other direction. Of course, EU has about 1.5x the population of the US, so it's more like double the rate of immigration, not triple.
> triple the money, quadruple the life costs
My short experiences living in Germany and the UK each seemed more expensive, denominated in dollars, than here, one of the highest cost of living regions in the US.
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
There will be quite a few people that stop them.
Like they did for Hong Kong?
After it became part of China again, it is not possible to interviene militarily in Beijing - HK relationship - that would be an invasion of China and violation of international law. You could not phisically station an army in HK.
Even if China has violated an agreement with UK regarding HK autonomy, thay does not give you legal grounds to start a war.
In cotrast, you could deploy the entire US military in Taiwan tomorrow, it would be legal and peacefull (provided Taiwanese Gov. Invited it). Additionally, invading Taiwan is actually extremely difficult because of terrain, just because you have a massive land army does not mean they can just teleport to Taiwan. It would be basically a D-day style effort against a well entrenched opponent.
So it is unlikely we will see phisical takeover of Taiwan in the near future, as so far we have no indication that China is looming for a causualty heavy war with little gain.
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't seem like that's the case for Airbus, ESA or CERN for instance. I agree that there's a lot of bureaucracy in Europe but still stuff gets done from time to time!
For Airbus I would agree but ESA isn't on the same level as NASA and CERN is competitive but only in a field where there is no real reason to be competitive (no money is made).
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
English isn't an official EU language anymore, the only country that chose it was UK. https://www.politico.eu/article/english-will-not-be-an-offic...
Do you have any references of English actually being phased-out in EU? The Politico article was written just a few days after the Brexit referendum, and 4 years later I can only take it for empty sabre-rattling.
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#456How will they be keeping talent? I heard workers in IT are paid low compared to other jobs and especially compared to similar jobs in North America, what stops them. from just going to US/Canada?
It'll be a stepping stone toward getting a job at the big players.
At best, they'll keep the B players around because they won't pass the stricter bar for immigration.
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#457Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What factors make you want to get out? As an American who's spent a lot of time in both the US and Continental Europe (and elsewhere) I don't see any terrific suck. At the risk of speaking out of turn, I've traveled extensively outside the US and befriended a lot of folks and had discussions on this topic with them. I would summarize my findings as such: 1. Economic Mobility: In Europe economic mobility, on average…
Worth noting that many Americans I know in Europe, have no plans to ever come back, they don't see USA as an option anymore once experienced life here. Source: work for FAANG, I see many one way relocations US>EU, not so much other way around. Furthermore: 1. yeah, triple the money, quadruple the life costs, and no social security safety net, or at least poor one. 2. what? 3. FREEDOM - very US centric view on the "fr…
1. Life costs are nowhere near quadruple, in fact they are roughly equal to lower in the US. I have no idea where you think this costs more, but I feel like this is a politicized statement taking averages and applying them to a subset of people who have the necessary affluence where the transition makes sense. Increased medical costs which impact uninsured or underinsured people in the US basically don't exist for tech workers who have high-quality employer-paid medical benefits in the US, as a simple example where this line of reasoning is flawed.
Social safety nets are something that only really matters to people who think they may end up using those social safety nets. People are often wrong about this, but that's just how people think. A lot of the affluent people who see themselves becoming more affluent in the US clearly understand it's partly due to not having to cover the social safety net for others. Actions speak louder than words.
2. and 3. I don't understand your "what?". In regards to #2 and #3, there's a massive difference in lifestyle and freedom of choice in your daily life when you own a sizeable single-family home on a city outskirts or in a suburb vs live in an apartment in the middle of a city. Each of these has pros and cons and attracts different people at different stages of their life. Meaningfully, the sizeable single-family home on the outskirts is mostly out of reach for people in Europe, even highly skilled individuals who would be solidly middle class in the US. This is only one of the myriad differences in lifestyle and freedom and how it affects daily life for someone living in both places.
A simple example from my own life, is that a good friend of mine moved near me from Germany because we both have a shared interest in racing cars. While Germany has fantastic things like the Nurburgring where you can simply drive on during open days to the public, TUV regulations and the significant increased costs of components, as well as difficulty in owning enough property to have space to work on your own cars makes it a lot more difficult to be a serious hobbyist gearhead in Germany vs the US. Here, he has a decent sized single-family home with a 3-car garage with high ceilings and a lift, as well as easy low-cost access to 6 race tracks within a one day drive, all at a fraction of his salary.
Obviously, YMMV and there is no one-size-fits-all answer. I loved Europe, but I came back to the US after many visits and living in Europe on a temporary residency for a year, largely for many of these same reasons myself. My sample set may be biased, but the Grandparent asked why some Europeans want to move to the US, I'm just sharing the reasons which were expressed to me. You may disagree with them in your own personal opinion, but it doesn't change that these are reasons which matter to some people.
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#458Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Europe has some successful international projects like CERN or Airbus. Besides, what are the other options? If we have to go back to mentioning Airbus (1970) and CERN (1954) to find successful European projects, I think this show how big of a serious problem there is in Europe no!? P.S: a lot of the young in Europe are learning english because they want to get the f--- out the EU as soon as they can. I'm european a…
Europe's done big multinational technical-political things many times to varying levels of success. Don't forget Gaileo, Arianespace, Airbus's parent EADS, the ESA, etc. They tend to not be super capital efficient, but the sheer amount of wealth and resources tend to make things that are priorities not completely fail. > P.S: a lot of the young in Europe are learning english because they want to get the f--- out the…
One of the most remarkable differences between most of Europe to most of North America is average physical space per person. That difference manifests itself in myriads of ways, from less regulation to being less in your neighbor’s face all the time. It’s just easier to live and let live when you’re a little farther apart.
And I think that is attractive to a percentage of our species, regardless of our birthplace. And being closer together is more attractive to another percentage of our species, as witnessed by people who move from North America to Europe.
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#459How will they be keeping talent? I heard workers in IT are paid low compared to other jobs and especially compared to similar jobs in North America, what stops them. from just going to US/Canada?
Having lived in both (and being a citizen of neither): quality of life. Your headline salary in the Us is higher but disposable income is often lower. You spend more time managing your life in the USA with less time left to live it. Some people enjoy that of course. I do find the working environment better in the US, and I enjoy my work, but on most other parameters it’s inferior.
>Your headline salary in the US is higher but disposable income is often lower
Even rough napkin math doesn't check out here. Let's say you are a senior engineer in Bay Area/SF (one of the most expensive places to live in the US, so I am not going for some outliers like Austin or Seattle where the math ends up being even more in favor of the employee), and you make $300k/yr total comp at one of the big tech companies (which isn't even that good for a senior engineer at Google/Netflix/Dropbox/Uber/etc., this is rather a low end of the comp at that level at those companies, https://levels.fyi has a pretty accurate data on compensation that matches with what I've seen in real life myself). I used one of the online calculators to see how much you take home after taxes in CA (https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-paycheck-calculator#...), it came out to around $7.5k semi-monthly or $15k/mo.
So you get $15k in cash every month after taxes. Let's say you want to live on your own in a new really nice 1bd apartment in the middle of the city. I will overestimate and say that you will pay $5k/mo on rent+utilities. After all of that, you got $10k left. Let's say you spend $2k/mo on food and other various random small expenses (again, overestimating here for the sake of the argument, realistically you will spend much less on both food and housing). After all of that you got $8k of disposable income left, and that's while living a very good quality of life (most engineers I know in Bay Area who make that much don't spend even nearly this much on housing and normal expenses btw, they are putting it in savings/401k/etc. in hopes of retiring early and such). Employer-provided insurance is usually amazing. My personal one is fully paid for by employer, and my out of pocket yearly maximum is $2.5k (so even in the worst case scenario, I won't ever spend more than that in a calendar year on health expenses). Also, most of the people in senior positions at those companies I listed make noticeably more than $300k/mo.
I guess the bottom line is, is there even a way in EU to have $8k+/mo of disposable income as an IC software dev? How difficult is it to make it happen? From my experience in the Bay Area and Seattle, it isn't the easiest thing on earth, and not everyone in those places makes that much, but it is far from "special" or rare.
Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push
#460Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What factors make you want to get out? As an American who's spent a lot of time in both the US and Continental Europe (and elsewhere) I don't see any terrific suck. At the risk of speaking out of turn, I've traveled extensively outside the US and befriended a lot of folks and had discussions on this topic with them. I would summarize my findings as such: 1. Economic Mobility: In Europe economic mobility, on average…
Worth noting that many Americans I know in Europe, have no plans to ever come back, they don't see USA as an option anymore once experienced life here. Source: work for FAANG, I see many one way relocations US>EU, not so much other way around. Furthermore: 1. yeah, triple the money, quadruple the life costs, and no social security safety net, or at least poor one. 2. what? 3. FREEDOM - very US centric view on the "fr…
At FAANG salaries I sure as hell bet they love life here since they're basically part of the 1% top earners in Europe but not every skilled worker in Europe can achieve FAANG levels of compensation. In other words, your sample size has too much room for selection bias and is purely anecdotal.