Elon Musk moves to Texas • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#231

Post by wyldfire » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #95

It's unfortunate that Elon is leaving California given that the state has really lifted him to the pedestal he is on - through the talent network (highly talented employees, VCs), and the progressive policies that CA built for clean technology (Solar, EVs, Energy Storage). That was paid for on the backs of the people. Funny how short his memory is. Elon is a talented man - I absolutely respect what he's done. However…

> It's unfortunate that Elon is leaving California given that the state has really lifted him to the pedestal he is on ... That was paid for on the backs of the people. Funny how short his memory is.

It would be great if he recognized this when deciding where to establish future production/design centers. But as an individual, I don't think he owes any state or government an allegiance. If you had found career success in New York State, would you feel any obligation to NYS if you had family or a new opportunity in California? I should think not. Nor should Musk.

It is interesting that Tesla is expanding with a new factory in Texas and that could be a big factor in his move. Regardless, it's up to him where he wants to live.

> he doesn't want to pay a large tax bill for the success that he has had (hence selling all property in CA).

I like to think I'm pretty progressive and the wealthy should definitely have a significant tax obligation. But if he has been taxed on his wealth up until now, why would he continue to owe California? If he wanted to leave California on terms that you would find more legitimate, how long would he have to stay or how much would he owe to leave?

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#232

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #108

boringg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, most places in the country have a massive deficit this year because states are spending money to protect their citizens and stimulate the economy. So this year is an odd year for most states... don't try and single out California as this bad actor that can't manage its finances. That narrative is misleading.

> Yes, most places in the country have a massive deficit this year because states are spending money to protect their citizens and stimulate the economy. This is Stockholm syndrome. Are citizens being protected? Because last I checked, the "smart" people have largely outlawed working, destroyed any semblance of normal life, the average person is $5k behind on rent, and all the old people died. The federal government…

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#233

Post by _throwawayyyyyy » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

good riddance

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#234

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #6

California is actively looking for ways to extract more money from Elon. It likely posed an appreciable risk to his business ventures that CA at some point will try to tax unrecognized capital gains, which would require him to liquidate shares to pay the tax. Basically akin to a hostile government takeover. If CA were to aggressively pursue such a policy, they would likely go after anyone they perceived as fleeing ju…

Many, many billionaires live, have lived, and thrive in CA - probably more than any place in the world. In fact, I'd guess that more billionaires have made their fortunes in CA than any other place.

The grievance rhetoric has gone too far (and had awhile ago) when it's used by billionaires.

There is also strong reactionary political rhetoric here, the premise that taxes on wealthy people are nearly criminal theft, and nobody would want to live someplace where they democratically invest in their community (i.e., pay taxes). There's also the economic assumption that taxes, whatever their current level, are always too high; AFAIK, taxes on wealthy people are at historic lows.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#235

Post by beambot » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:31 PM UTC

itsoktocry wrote: post #199

busterarm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, framed differently, California is looking for deep pockets to bail out their failing budget rather than adjust their policy to match what they can afford. The same has been happening in New Jersey with its insane taxes that don't really go to pay for services anymore and have diverted from transportation & infrastructure projects for decades now to bail out their severely underfunded pension funds...where the pen…

> Or, framed differently, California is looking for deep pockets to bail out their failing budget rather than adjust their policy to match what they can afford. You mean the budget that included tax abatement and subsidies for his factories and the people who buy his cars?

You mean abatements & subsidies required to push "clean" vehicle policies that are among the most aggressive in the world?

Without Tesla & CA's policies, auto electrification would be at least a decade behind what it is today... Being at the forefront of environmental policy has real costs.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#236

Post by bosswipe » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:32 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #62

apcragg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failing budget? I get that it's super popular right-wing talking point but it just hasn't been true for years. Prior to COVID (which has decimated state budgets Red and Blue) California had a huge surplus and massive rainy-day fund.

California has a $54B deficit this year. It's been all over the news, including very left-wing sources like NY Times and Politico. The state _projected_ a surplus and was off by an entire order of magnitude into the red. The state has been campaigning to Congress all year for about $14B in bailout money.

It's always amazing when I talk to conservatives about california how they know so many little negative details about my state. A lot of times I'll ask them about the budget of their own state and they won't have any idea.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#237

Post by jerkstate » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:32 PM UTC

scop wrote: post #195

itbeho wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At last count I've had 14 friends move out of California in the last 3 years. All of them middle class. The biggest reasons given are cost of living and quality of life and education for their kids.

We will be moving out of CA in the coming months. We are lifelong residents. We are leaving due to cost of living and especially quality of life for our children.

Please consider the policies that made your location expensive and of poor quality for families when voting in your new home.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#238

Post by maxharris » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:32 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #47

SEJeff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how that changes when the vehicles (like cybertruck) are manufactured in Austin, TX.

I doubt it. Car dealerships are still very politically powerful. They are major contributors to state legislative and congressional races, support local charities, etc and employ lots of well-paid local staff. As electric becomes more common, that will tip as manufacturers buyout dealerships. But that will take awhile and bigger dealers are gobbling up little dealers in the meantime. IMO, the dealers will be less of…

I doubt car dealers will have much of a future in a world were you can just hop in a robotaxi for very little money and not have to spend on parking, fuel, maintenance, registration fees, etc.

I sold my car in 2018 and have been living car-free in Los Angeles since then. For the times they are a-changin'...

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#239

Post by beowulfey » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:32 PM UTC

pyrrhotech wrote: post #181

Moving out of CA was the best decision I ever made. Now I can drive on the roads without traffic, pay 0 state income tax and live my life peacefully without being surrounded by bums and social justice warriors. Downvote away SJWs!

Just like a real world example of an echo chamber. We like to surround ourselves with people who think similarly to us.

Re: Elon Musk moves to Texas

#240

Post by pyrrhotech » Wed, Dec 09, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #187

pyrrhotech wrote: post #181

Moving out of CA was the best decision I ever made. Now I can drive on the roads without traffic, pay 0 state income tax and live my life peacefully without being surrounded by bums and social justice warriors. Downvote away SJWs!

>pay 0 state income tax Do you see this as a good thing? How does your state fund itself?

Florida funds itself mostly through tourism taxes, however we also spend much less than CA overall. Just like different people spend different amounts of money, different states do too and need to tax less because of it. CA mostly spends money by paying cops, bart workers, toll booth collectors, etc 100-400k per year whereas Florida pays its government employees market wages.