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First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

bbc.com

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Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#361

Post by h_anna_h »

natex wrote: post #360
h_anna_h wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"60,000 people in the UK have already ended due to this virus" how accurate is this? I do not know about the UK but here (Greece) they asked family members to sign that their relative died from covid when dying from something unrelated otherwise they are not allowed to retrieve the body for weeks. They also count 80-90 year olds that died as covid victims.

> they asked family members to sign that their relative died from covid when dying from something unrelated otherwise they are not allowed to retrieve the body for weeks. At least in the UK and US this is misinformation and false. Cause of death is certified by doctors or coroners and added to a database that reported COVID deaths are pulled from. Family members do not have to sign anything before cause of death is d…

I would certainly expect that to be the case in a sane system. Sadly I have seen too many bureaucratic insanities around so it does not seem far-fetched to me.

"and added to a database that reported COVID deaths are pulled from." database or excel spreadsheet? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24689247

I don't use facebook, my sources are my aunt (my uncle died 5 days ago due to falling and hitting his head, combined with a stroke history) and a family friend who is a doctor (and claims to be aware of 11 of such cases), note that said doctor and my aunt do not know each other.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#362

Post by zensavona »

watwut wrote: post #351
dm319 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it weird that sex gets equated to other negative things like this. Same for TV/film ratings. And yet these days, even kinky sex, is pretty low risk.

The risk of rape or other non consensual act or blackmail in kinky sex is not low. Most aint gonna call cops and people know it.

One could also make the argument that to be participating in "kinky sex" in the first place a person probably has thought more about sex than the average person and may have more experience communicating what they do and don't like - making verbal consent and discussions around these topics more likely to have happened.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#363

Post by lazyjones »

iso1631 wrote: post #313
makomk wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true in the UK. Anyone who dies with 28 days of testing positive for Covid-19 is counted as a Covid death, don't think there are exceptions for obvious things like motor-cycle accidents and definitely not for heart attacks (some of those probably are caused by Covid). Also, the NHS is testing almost everyone admitted to hospital. Used to be anyone who died at any point after testing positive but that messed with…

In the UK there are 4 figures 1) Died within 28 days of a +ve test 2) Died within 60 days of a +ve test (in England, but not elsewhere) 3) Death certificate mentions covid 4) Excess deaths above that expected Then there's the "date reported" and "date of death". The date reported is the day the notice reaches the death registrar. That can be within an hour or so of actual death, or can take months. Most are done with…

> If the majority of those deaths were people being hit by a bus, you'd expect the 60 day number to be about double the 28 day number

Only if the testing was unrelated to the death or hospitalisation. If people who get hit by a bus are routinely tested in the ambulance or in hospital, the outcome will be more likely as reported.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#364

Post by zaroth »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #294

Some quick points about this. The British Medical Journal and Royal Society of medicine have published a number of concerns about this vaccine. "Will covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren’t designed to tell us" https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037 "All these data for the different vaccines are potentially very promising, but none of the phase III trials have been published in peer reviewed journals o…

> ...but none of the phase III trials have been published in peer reviewed journals or analysed by age group, gender and case description...

What’s this then?

https://twitter.com/wgibson/status/1336298050315313158?s=21

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#365

Post by officialjunk »

markburns wrote: post #339
n4r9 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean it "doesn't prevent infection"? Trials showed vastly reduced infection rate amongst people who'd had the vaccine.

As a layperson I read “prevent” to mean a 100% reduction. Not sure if there’s a slightly different interpretation than that but I’d presume that’s what they mean?

Didn't have a link handy at the time. Read this https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/cov...

"We all expect an effective vaccine to prevent serious illness if infected. Three of the vaccine protocols—Moderna, Pfizer, and AstraZeneca—do not require that their vaccine prevent serious disease only that they prevent moderate symptoms which may be as mild as cough, or headache."

"Prevention of infection is not a criterion for success for any of these vaccines. In fact, their endpoints all require confirmed infections and all those they will include in the analysis for success, the only difference being the severity of symptoms between the vaccinated and unvaccinated."

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#366

Post by zaroth »

bagacrap wrote: post #344
n4r9 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean it "doesn't prevent infection"? Trials showed vastly reduced infection rate amongst people who'd had the vaccine.

It prevented symptomatic covid , but we still don't know if it prevents transmission of the virus itself. It might just turn you into an asymptomatic spreader.

> Data are limited to assess the effect of the vaccine against transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from individuals who are infected despite vaccination. Demonstrated high efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 may translate to overall prevention of transmission in populations with high enough vaccine uptake, though it is possible that if efficacy against asymptomatic infection were lower than efficacy against symptomatic infection, asymptomatic cases in combination with reduced mask-wearing and social distancing could result in significant continued transmission. Additional evaluations including data from clinical trials and from vaccine use post-authorization will be needed to assess the effect of the vaccine in preventing virus shedding and transmission, in particular in individuals with asymptomatic infection.

What they are saying is that it is technically possible for their vaccine which is highly effective at preventing symptomatic COVID to be somehow ineffective at preventing asymptomatic COVID.

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#367

Post by zaroth »

officialjunk wrote: post #365
markburns wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a layperson I read “prevent” to mean a 100% reduction. Not sure if there’s a slightly different interpretation than that but I’d presume that’s what they mean?

Didn't have a link handy at the time. Read this https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/cov... "We all expect an effective vaccine to prevent serious illness if infected. Three of the vaccine protocols—Moderna, Pfizer, and AstraZeneca—do not require that their vaccine prevent serious disease only that they prevent moderate symptoms which may be as mild as cough, or headache." "Prevention of infection…

The Moderna vaccine, for example, “is highly effective in preventing symptomatic COVID.”

They only did PCR testing on trial participants who reported symptoms. They did not PCR test the entire study population.

Incidence of symptomatic COVID was dramatically halted by about Day 14 after the first dose:

https://twitter.com/wgibson/status/1336298050315313158?s=21

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#368

Post by harrydehal »

dizzydot wrote: post #290
daveed wrote: post #52

> Second in line for the jab at University Hospital in Coventry was 81-year-old William Shakespeare from Warwickshire His high priority must've been on purpose, right?

Taming of the flu.

Given that he was second in line... He was patient 2B (or not to be)?

Shamelessly stolen from Deutsche Welle :) https://www.dw.com/en/the-day-with-brent-goff-the-first-inje...

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#369

Post by tim333 »

officialjunk wrote: post #365
markburns wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a layperson I read “prevent” to mean a 100% reduction. Not sure if there’s a slightly different interpretation than that but I’d presume that’s what they mean?

Didn't have a link handy at the time. Read this https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/cov... "We all expect an effective vaccine to prevent serious illness if infected. Three of the vaccine protocols—Moderna, Pfizer, and AstraZeneca—do not require that their vaccine prevent serious disease only that they prevent moderate symptoms which may be as mild as cough, or headache." "Prevention of infection…

>the only difference being the severity of symptoms between the vaccinated and unvaccinated

seems kind of wrong to me. The main difference they are hoping for is the number of cases of illness between the unvaccinated and vaccinated. If you get 100 cases in the unvaccinated group and 1 in the vaccinated it doesn't really matter if the symptoms are a bit better or worse.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#370

Post by tim333 »

fairity wrote: post #355
dm319 wrote: post #180

I work here and was in clinic this morning. We had three eligible patients. One consented to it and is having the vaccine now. The other two declined. Not making a point, just a data point.

Color me surprised if there ends up being an actual problem with demand for this vaccine. As soon as vaccinated people start flaunting their freedom of movement, people will clamor to line up. The vaccine's scarcity will further magnify the desire to get vaccinated. It's natural for the initial reaction to be skepticism. Nobody wants to be first, but as soon as the first cohorts get vaccinated and the media publish t…

>As soon as vaccinated people start flaunting their freedom of movement

That could be a big factor. At the moment there's nothing - no vaccination certificate that lets you fly easier or something like that. But it could be a big motivator if there was.

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