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First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

bbc.com

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Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#351

Post by watwut »

dm319 wrote: post #343
mcv wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes it really sounds like there are people who just want everybody to die. Something completely different that I just can't help thinking about this year: I used to play Warhammer as a kid, and that game world has 4 forces of Chaos that threaten to tempt and corrupt people: Khorne was about violence and bloodshed, Slaanesh about kinky sex, Tzeentch about secret power, and Nurgle about disease and decay. I could…

I always find it weird that sex gets equated to other negative things like this. Same for TV/film ratings. And yet these days, even kinky sex, is pretty low risk.

The risk of rape or other non consensual act or blackmail in kinky sex is not low. Most aint gonna call cops and people know it.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#352

Post by Slartie »

acqq wrote: post #171
Slartie wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the virus replicating itself in a body, which leads to the body being able to spread the virus to others. And there is the body getting sick. The second often follows the first, but the two are not necessarily connected, which is proven by asymptomatic spreaders. In the vaccine phase 3 tests, it was only determined whether people get sick, and the vaccine was found to prevent 95% of people from getting sick.…

Possible "reduced viral load" by those who are vaccinated simply doesn't mean that that load is below the threshold which makes somebody not infectious. In practice, it could, for example, mean that if such persons spend two hours in the room with you they can still transmit the virus to you, whereas the non vaccinated person with the virus would transmit to you in 15 minutes. So you can't just claim that a person is…

There is no threshold that makes people non-infectious. Or there is, and it is zero. Because even a single virus instance can potentially infect someone else. It is extremely unlikely to happen, but not impossible.

Because of this, for practical purposes, you either have to arbitrarily set a threshold at which someone is considered non-infectious, ignoring that it is not impossible for that person to infect someone. Or you have to stop talking in absolutes entirely and just talk about probabilities.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#353

Post by lbeltrame »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #294

Some quick points about this. The British Medical Journal and Royal Society of medicine have published a number of concerns about this vaccine. "Will covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren’t designed to tell us" https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037 "All these data for the different vaccines are potentially very promising, but none of the phase III trials have been published in peer reviewed journals o…

The FDA released today all the data they're using for the upcoming Dec 10th discussion, and it is quite detailed:

https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

Writing a peer-reviewed paper two weeks after the data are out is hard, even more so when you have an emergency use authorization ongoing (which requires far more data).

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#354

Post by watwut »

bserge wrote: post #273
ceejayoz wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's likely the chain of custody for fish and critical medical supplies will be somewhat different.

I can only hope so. They could very well outsource it to the usual transportation companies, and there isn't much accountability tbh. Oh well, if this one doesn't work, perhaps we can try again with the Oxford vaccine heh

You know, thinking fish and vaccine are treated the same does not show smart understanding of region. Honestly, it shows not understanding it at all.

Not that vaccines are about to be flawless. But failure will be different.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#355

Post by fairity »

dm319 wrote: post #180

I work here and was in clinic this morning. We had three eligible patients. One consented to it and is having the vaccine now. The other two declined. Not making a point, just a data point.

Color me surprised if there ends up being an actual problem with demand for this vaccine.

As soon as vaccinated people start flaunting their freedom of movement, people will clamor to line up. The vaccine's scarcity will further magnify the desire to get vaccinated.

It's natural for the initial reaction to be skepticism. Nobody wants to be first, but as soon as the first cohorts get vaccinated and the media publish their nonplussed reactions, the lines will explode and we'll have the opposite problem: me-first.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#356

Post by viraptor »

watwut wrote: post #351
dm319 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it weird that sex gets equated to other negative things like this. Same for TV/film ratings. And yet these days, even kinky sex, is pretty low risk.

The risk of rape or other non consensual act or blackmail in kinky sex is not low. Most aint gonna call cops and people know it.

Define kinky? For some kinky is wearing leather, for some rolling in jelly, for some fake forced sex, etc. It's really not one bag and not the same risk. (Kind of like when people say "in Europe")

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#357

Post by mft_ »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #294

Some quick points about this. The British Medical Journal and Royal Society of medicine have published a number of concerns about this vaccine. "Will covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren’t designed to tell us" https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037 "All these data for the different vaccines are potentially very promising, but none of the phase III trials have been published in peer reviewed journals o…

1) BMJ is rabble-rousing. Endpoints for any pivotal trial will be agreed with regulators in advance. In this case, while I don’t know the numbers themselves, I suspect that given the low rate of serious complications of Covid overall, waiting for sufficient numbers of outcomes such as hospitalisation, intensive care visits, or death, would increase the duration, size, and cost of the trial, and maybe significantly so.

2) Bitching about skipping the peer-review process in the face of a global pandemic is self-important nonsense. Peer review isn’t necessary for the drug approval process, and takes a significant amount of time and effort that the people involved probably didn’t have. If it’s between writing a regulatory submission versus a manuscript, in this situation prioritising the activity that will likely directly save lives is reasonable. The manuscripts and ever-so-important peer review will follow soon.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#358

Post by n4r9 »

bagacrap wrote: post #344
n4r9 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean it "doesn't prevent infection"? Trials showed vastly reduced infection rate amongst people who'd had the vaccine.

It prevented symptomatic covid , but we still don't know if it prevents transmission of the virus itself. It might just turn you into an asymptomatic spreader.

Huh, you're correct, at least in the case of Pfizer. That's a pretty important bit of info that seemed to be missing in all the reporting I'd read until I googled for that specifically.

I'd be surprised if it turned out that the vaccine simply dials down the symptoms, based on my understanding of vaccines, but I guess we can't rule it out yet.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#359

Post by dm319 »

spyridonas wrote: post #346
officialjunk wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the pfizer vaccine doesn't prevent infection, but does save lives by preventing severe symptoms, which is why at-risk groups are prioritized. the vaccines that actually prevent infection are still being developed. 2022 sounds realistic for that, if not a tad early.

Aren't all the vaccines from all the companies designed as mRNA that teaches/instructs the body how to kill the virus ?

The pfizer vaccine is mRNA, so when it goes into a cell it will use the translation machinery to convert to protein and that gets presented to the immune system. The Oxford vaccine uses a non-reproductive adenovirus to introduce the RNA into the cell, with a similar result. I think the Oxford one won't have issues with storage. There are others that use recombinant protein from the virus.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#360

Post by natex »

h_anna_h wrote: post #348
natex wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that someone might want to wait just a little longer to see if any side effects emerge is not necessarily irrational. In general, yes it is irrational. There is evidence that the benefits of vaccines (including this one) far outweigh the risks of side effects. > Would you not concede that, if and when any unexpected side-effects do emerge (however rare or insignificant), this gung-ho attitude will backfire…

"60,000 people in the UK have already ended due to this virus" how accurate is this? I do not know about the UK but here (Greece) they asked family members to sign that their relative died from covid when dying from something unrelated otherwise they are not allowed to retrieve the body for weeks. They also count 80-90 year olds that died as covid victims.

> they asked family members to sign that their relative died from covid when dying from something unrelated otherwise they are not allowed to retrieve the body for weeks.

At least in the UK and US this is misinformation and false. Cause of death is certified by doctors or coroners and added to a database that reported COVID deaths are pulled from. Family members do not have to sign anything before cause of death is determined. I'd wager that Greece is no different.

COVID deaths are well known. There are many scholarly articles out there on how they are counted for people who don't get their information from Facebook. Here's a quick little article for example. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-covid-19-deat...

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