CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream • Hacker News Board

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#401

Post by ueshiba9 » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:25 PM UTC

jmnicolas wrote: post #200

awill wrote: post #109

This is awful. It's proof of the downsides to the IBM acquisition, which I think we all knew was coming. Imagine if you were running a business, and deployed CentOS 8 based on the 10 year lifespan promise. You're totally screwed now, and Red Hat knows it. Why on earth didn't they make this switch starting with CentOS 9???? Let's not sugar coat this. They've betrayed their users. I personally run a CentOS 7 server (as…

Yes this hurts. My use case is specific: I'm a dev but since we're 2 in the IT service with barely any budget I'm also a (modest) sysadmin and they also call me when the printer or the TV doesn't work. So a few years ago when Debian decided to have faster release cycles I migrated all my VM to CentOS: once the OS is installed I don't want to think about it for the next 10 years. I still didn't finish my Windows 7 to…

So let's recap, you don't have budget to spend on Linux but pay Microsoft for Windows and probably Office... And now you are angry for allegedly not having a 10 year support for your OS, so you can avoid some work on upgrading or migrating the VMs. I suspect you should be running VMware as well (and paying for it), instead of KVM or some other open source hypervisor. If the VMs are on a public cloud, you are paying for it indirectly as well. You may have some additional work indeed, but you saved a lot on not spending on a paid Linux distro, being Red Hat's or any other distro, therefore it should be worth it... take that into account

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#402

Post by kbenson » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

bonzini wrote: post #364

kbenson wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That in no way explains why they don't continue to have both. They indeed will have both for another year. There was no requirement the Stream product even use the CentOS name. CentOS was a community project whose leadership and control was taken over (acqui-hired as you say) by Red Hat and then it's core use case for the majority of people actually using it was discontinued. That is a statement of facts that happene…

> That in no way explains why they don't continue to have both Because they don't need it anymore. CentOS Linux or other rebuilds can still exist (just not using the name; I disagree with that but I can understand Red Hat doesn't want its name attached to something that might have large delays in security fixes in the future) if somebody funds it or volunteers to do it, just like CentOS still supports Xen but RHEL do…

>>> it's a change that has strictly technical motives.

I understand the business reasons for doing so. I don't agree with anyone branding this as done for purely technical reasons. Having CentOS Stream may be needed for technical reasons. Stopping CentOS 8 is in no way a technical decision. They are unrelated in any technical sense.

If Red Hat just doesn't want to put resources towards CentOS as it traditionally existed anymore, that's their option, but they deserve any flak they get for taking over an open source project just to extinguish it, since CentOS is in no way really needs to be linked to their Stream product. They could just as easily called it RHEL Stream and said it's free, and it would be a less confusing and more direct funnel of people that want RHEL stability into RHEL subscriptions. Using the CentOS name is just a mind-share grab and screwing over an open source community. They control it so can do it, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to call them out for doing so.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#403

Post by ueshiba9 » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

ossusermivami wrote: post #215

jmnicolas wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this hurts. My use case is specific: I'm a dev but since we're 2 in the IT service with barely any budget I'm also a (modest) sysadmin and they also call me when the printer or the TV doesn't work. So a few years ago when Debian decided to have faster release cycles I migrated all my VM to CentOS: once the OS is installed I don't want to think about it for the next 10 years. I still didn't finish my Windows 7 to…

nothing is really free in this word! I think rollling your own distro is the only way to truly be free!

Agree! It is the beauty of open source to build it you own way. Google or other giants build their own distro as well, but they have enough talented people to maintain it

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#404

Post by toyg » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #343

breakingcups wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until IBM / Red Hat acquires that fork just like they did CentOS

A community-controlled organization could just opt to not be acquired (and indeed should, given this precedent).

This sort of cloning effort tend to live in contractual grey areas. Would that community (of people who got together to avoid paying for licenses) be ready to pay to defend developers from expensive lawsuits filed by one of the wealthiest corporates on the planet? Or rather, would developers in charge of such projects believe that? An acqui-hire with fuck-you money on one side, vs years of pain and likely bankruptcy - it’s not really a choice, is it?

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#405

Post by kbenson » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

arbitrage wrote: post #394

kbenson wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That in no way explains why they don't continue to have both. They indeed will have both for another year. There was no requirement the Stream product even use the CentOS name. CentOS was a community project whose leadership and control was taken over (acqui-hired as you say) by Red Hat and then it's core use case for the majority of people actually using it was discontinued. That is a statement of facts that happene…

> That in no way explains why they don't continue to have both. They're a business ... are you honestly and in good-faith actually confused about this outcome?

I'm not confused at all about that. I was responding to the point that said "it's a change that has strictly technical motives." It's a business decision that's based on profit and positioning and name mind-share, so let's not hide that.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#406

Post by daxelrod » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

mmcgrath1 wrote: post #228

jmnicolas wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this hurts. My use case is specific: I'm a dev but since we're 2 in the IT service with barely any budget I'm also a (modest) sysadmin and they also call me when the printer or the TV doesn't work. So a few years ago when Debian decided to have faster release cycles I migrated all my VM to CentOS: once the OS is installed I don't want to think about it for the next 10 years. I still didn't finish my Windows 7 to…

Before giving up on us just yet, I'd encourage you to check out our developer program for proper RHEL that's free. And I'd stay tuned for announcements that are coming in the first half of 2021 (as mentioned in our FAQ). You might find we've got a program for you: https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10

I appreciate you commenting.

I think people would panic less if the CentOS Linux cancellation were announced at the same time as these upcoming announcements. Without them, there's a lot of uncertainty and it's hard for anyone depending on CentOS 8 to plan.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#407

Post by apecat » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:35 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #386

apecat wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any license traps in Oracle Linux? Writing like this makes me very wary of putting Oracle Linux anywhere near my employer's systems https://www.computerworld.com/article/2992597/law-firm-warns... https://blog.dbwatch.com/how-to-avoid-oracles-licensing-trap... Then there's the famous lawn mover quote from Bryan Cantrill https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5170246

Can you imagine if they had successfully purchased TikTok?

match made not in heaven but on Oracle Cloud

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#408

Post by toyg » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:36 PM UTC

cwyers wrote: post #332

From Red Hat's release: ```There are different kinds of CentOS users, and we are working with the CentOS Project Governing Board to tailor programs that meet the needs of these different user groups. In the first half of 2021, we plan to introduce low- or no-cost programs for a variety of use cases, including options for open source projects and communities and expansion of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Developer subs…

But then you would have nothing to announce when saying “we listened to the community and blablabla”.

This way they can keep up the illusion that they do everything with good intentions and did not expect people would get angry. “We are not the baddies, here’s some sweetener to prove it!”

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#409

Post by Shared404 » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

liv-io wrote: post #294

Shared404 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I've been seeing more and more about the BSD's online recently, and to be quite honest, I'm happy about that. Just installed OpenBSD for the first time the other day, and am loving it.

This might help you on your start: https://github.com/liv-io/ansible-roles-bsd

Looks like a nice resource, many thanks!

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#410

Post by AsyncAwait » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

Just upgraded to CentOS Stream from CentOS 7, so far so good.

Contrary to most commenters, I am actually optimistic. I switched to Arch on the desktop a decade ago because I was tired of having to often nuke and pave my install every 6 months. I am still with Arch all these years later, even for my work machine and I work as a programmer so instability wouldn't fly.

Obviously the support window for CentOS was much, much longer, but if they're careful we can perhaps have the convenience of a rolling release with the stability of RHEL, or close to then more power to them.

My only concern is the short EOL window for current CentOS 8 users.