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Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

psyche.co

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Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#101

Post by haecceity »

fairity wrote: post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

You're assuming that at least some choices of the dark trait choices are better than non dark trait choices.

You're also assuming people are able to find those better choices when presented with more choices.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#102

Post by bronzeage »

fairity wrote: post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

Sometimes the opposite is true. Sometimes presenting yourself as a "dark-traits" individual with no moral compass and no remorse is the correct action, even when you do have an internal moral compass that would stop you.

In the face of bullies, it's better to pretend to be unbridled like them, than be exploited by them. Deterrence and unpredictability are sometimes desirable traits. Sometimes pretending to have no moral boundaries will lead to less boundaries being tested.

Presenting red-lines and boundaries can be impossible for people whose moral code is known and predictable. Threatening with an immoral reaction is sometimes the most effective way to deal with bullies, and it's not really immoral as long as you don't do it.

Look at how Obama drew red lines in Syria that were trampled, and provoked to the edge of his reaction. It's all a result of his moral compass being an open book.

On the other hand, Trump doesn't even need to draw a red line. Being known as unpredictable was more deterring than any action Obama did.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#103

Post by dllthomas »

fairity wrote: post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

> iff

I don't think that second f is justified from what you've said. The "only if" seems likely in the modern environment but not guaranteed.

Even the "if" half doesn't quite seem guaranteed, though. If it's always easy to know which choice maximizes utility, then having more options is clearly better. But I don't think that's the case often enough to be confident in it. If someone is skilled at pretending to be "good", but finds themselves with choice paralysis in situations where genuinely "good" agents would proceed with dispatch at only a slight penalty to the average quality of the ultimate choice, you might be less successful for having the "dark traits" despite covering them up. And even that is ignoring the cost of doing the covering.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#104

Post by mewpmewp2 »

haecceity wrote: post #101
fairity wrote: post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

You're assuming that at least some choices of the dark trait choices are better than non dark trait choices. You're also assuming people are able to find those better choices when presented with more choices.

What are you trying to say? Aren't those assumptions reasonable?

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#105

Post by mewpmewp2 »

mcguire wrote: post #40
alexpetralia wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does high agreeableness necessarily translate into more empathy, or vice versa? I define empathy as "knowing your customer" (whoever it may be). You can be very attuned to this whether you are agreeable or disagreeable, no? (Perhaps this is not a widely accepted definition of empathy, and that definition instead somehow indicates "being nice"? I don't think being nice/agreeable necessarily helps you know who you're s…

" I define empathy as "knowing your customer" (whoever it may be). You can be very attuned to this whether you are agreeable or disagreeable, no? " That is a very odd definition of empathy; it seems to imply that you are trying to sell them something, that you want something from them.

You could think of any interaction in the world as a trade of something. Best if it is a win win for both sides.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#106

Post by loa_in_ »

aminozuur wrote: post #17

People who have a desire for power, are often the ones who end up getting it. I hope societies can think of methods that allow calm and reasonable people to be elected.

What pains me the most is that (in my country) you can go to police-profiled school at 15 years old.

Who the heck is capable to make this choice at 15? What traits is this going to amplify in a public force?

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#107

Post by mewpmewp2 »

kjlkjoxcvxch wrote: post #57
pizza234 wrote: post #6

The test itself is very well done - they try to get people to respond precisely, but checking attention, and asking multiple times questions about the same concept. However, the article has a very fundamental flaw: > Unfortunately, most people with extreme levels of dark personality traits don’t want to change who they are. Despite not being particularly happy with their lives The test doesn't deal with "happiness" a…

Using a throwaway for obvious reasons. I've been diagnosed as having narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) by several doctors so maybe I can shed some light on this. NPD is the inability to generate and/or experience internal validation. It is the lack of internal voice saying "good job". NPD is not self-aggrandizement although that is a common coping mechanism used to deal with the underlying disorder. I don't thi…

I require external validation and I can't validate myself. Does it make me narcissistic too?

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#108

Post by mewpmewp2 »

bumby wrote: post #37
pizza234 wrote: post #6

The test itself is very well done - they try to get people to respond precisely, but checking attention, and asking multiple times questions about the same concept. However, the article has a very fundamental flaw: > Unfortunately, most people with extreme levels of dark personality traits don’t want to change who they are. Despite not being particularly happy with their lives The test doesn't deal with "happiness" a…

I've found Daniel Khaneman's definition of happiness being useful here. He divides happiness into two parts: a "experiential" happiness and a "reflecting" happiness. For the sake of the discussion and acknowledging I have zero insight into his personality, someone like Steve Jobs could be low in "experiential" happiness (seemingly endlessly frustrated in the present moment) and high on the "reflecting" happiness ("lo…

If happiness is the ultimate goal should we work on finding something like heroin, but without tolerance build up and withdrawals?

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#109

Post by mewpmewp2 »

incrudible wrote: post #64

Personality traits that are not advantageous in some way are unlikely to be maintained over many generations of evolution. Personality traits that are universally advantageous would not be discernible as traits, because they would become universal to everyone. Therefore, all personality traits must also be disadvantageous in some way. So-called "dark trait" behaviors obviously confer advantages at least in the short…

Some personality traits haven't adapted to modern life as well as others and some have adapted extremely well. For instance most people have too much anxiety since you had to be way more careful throughout history. Now you have so much safety net everywhere so risk taking is a much more valuable trait as most people are biased against taking risks.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#110

Post by mewpmewp2 »

rienbdj wrote: post #34

The dream of many a disgruntled intellectual teen is to have a dark personality, yet be so good at the hard skills that people put up with it. The most unproductive form this can take is when dark personality traits are seen as a signal of brilliance... “Well if they’re such an asshole they must be good at their job or they would have been shown the door already”. See also: the idolisation of Rick from Rick and Morty

I still secretly have this dream and I am almost 30.
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