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CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

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Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#101

Post by busterarm »

em500 wrote: post #49
CrLf wrote: post #37

TL;DR: CentOS Linux 8.x will end in 2021, CentOS Stream 8 will be RHEL 8.x plus whatever updates are in the pipeline for it. CentOS 7.x will remain as today until RHEL 7.x reaches EOL. I'm very pessimistic on what this means for the RHEL ecosystem as a whole... If I understand correctly, CentOS Stream 8 should be relatively stable just after a RHEL 8.x release, because the pipeline will contain just minor updates. Bu…

I share your pessimism about RHEL. I think Canonical could be a big beneficiary, if they can stop shooting themselves in the foot with stuff like upsells for live kernel patches, and snaps for non-desktop apps.

They've basically ceded the entire ecosystem to Canonical with this move and haven't realized it yet.

And we're all worse off for it.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#102

Post by cozzyd »

mrweasel wrote: post #93
Veen wrote: post #77

> If you are using CentOS Linux 8 in a production environment, and are concerned that CentOS Stream will not meet your needs, we encourage you to contact Red Hat about options. Not exactly unexpected, but disappointing: if you want to continue using something like CentOS, pay for RHEL. Lots of web hosting providers will be quite concerned.

Why exactly is that disappointing? Isn't it more disappointing that some companies expect to be able to run the same OS for 13 years and get security patches backported for free? I don't think this will hurt RedHat at all. How many RHEL customers are actually generated as a result of providing CentOS for free? Not many I suspect. Those who want to learn about RHEL can still get Fedora, or CentOS Stream, or a RedHat d…

It's a network effect. If you are always around EL machines, you're going to know, want to work with, and recommend EL machines.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#103

Post by dilawar »

happyjack wrote: post #51

Wow. I kind of new this day was coming. I work in engineering / science (not comp. sci or developing) and all our software vendors are Windows or RHEL support only. Although if you know your way around linux any flavor will do, but RHEL is the "standard" for support. It's kind of like "insurance." We expect this to compile / work for RHEL and NOTHING else, because RHEL is stable, predictable, and boring. I've run mos…

I have been using openSUSE. It's been pretty stable on the laptop. On laptop, I use the Tumbleweed (rolling release) and 15.1 or 15.2 on servers. Give it a try.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#104

Post by AdmiralAsshat »

FeistySkink wrote: post #98
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your whole family runs CentOS as their desktop operating system?

Extended yes. And has been for years without a single issue. Immediate family all on Fedora. Very little maintenance, automated updates. Desktop software installed through flatpaks. Easy remote management. Users don't care about the OS as long as they know how to open the browser, email, word processor, Skype, Zoom, etc.

Fair enough, was just confirming. It didn't occur to me that flatpaks would probably assist in bridging the gap between a "Workstation" OS and a conventional end-user OS where yum repos and EPEL might be lacking.

> Easy remote management.

Just out of curiousity, are you SSHing in directly, or installing the Teamviewer RPM on all of them?

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#105

Post by einpoklum »

santoshalper wrote: post #55
thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #40

>> CentOS Stream now sits between the Fedora Project’s operating system innovation and RHEL’s production stability So if we compare to Debian, this means: Fedora Debian unstable (Sid) CentOS Stream Debian testing (currently Bullseye) RHEL Debian stable (currently Buster) quote source: https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/centos-stream-building-innova... (linked from the article)

Seems like that is accurate. I am struck by how cleaner and simpler Debian's naming scheme is. If you don't follow the Red Hat world closely, those names are going to be very confusing.

> I am struck by how cleaner and simpler Debian's naming scheme is

It's just a simple common-sense scheme, it's not the result of deep thought. What you're struck by is how marketing-oriented the RedHat repository naming scheme seems to be...

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#106

Post by curt15 »

mattdm wrote: post #91
kklimonda wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RedHat provides developer subscriptions to their products: https://developers.redhat.com/articles/getting-red-hat-devel...

And this will be expanding to cover more use cases. See https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10 : _In the first half of 2021, we will be introducing low- or no-cost programs for a variety of use cases, including options for open source projects and communities, partner ecosystems and an expansion of the use cases of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Developer subscription to better serve the needs of…

How about discounts for universities? They could take a page from Microsoft, which introduces students and teachers to its ecosystem with low-cost versions of Windows and Office.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#107

Post by mattdm »

nrclark wrote: post #15

What will this mean for Fedora? Doesn’t Fedora already occupy the niche of “Redhat-unstable”?

Fedora doesn't like to be put in that particular niche anyway. Yes, Fedora is fast moving and it is what Red Hat uses as the base for major releases, but we're more than "Redhat-unstable" in so many ways.

CentOS Stream will be the upstream for RHEL minor branch development. This is actually a huge thing that I think people are missing: previously, once branched from Fedora, RHEL development did not happen in the public eye. With Stream, it will. This is huge and awesome good news. However, that development will still be entirely Red Hat curated. This is different from Fedora, where we make community decisions with Red Hat's engineering input as a stakeholder but not the decider. (See for example btrfs as the default filesystem.)

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#108

Post by FeistySkink »

mattdm wrote: post #96
FeistySkink wrote: post #45

Oh, wow. My whole extended family has CentOS on their machines for years because of LTS. Not sure what I'm going to replace it with now and how. Perhaps there's going to be Fedora LTS at some point soon. I sure hope Fedora is not the next casualty. IBM strikes again.

I'm a little confused by this. Well, first, I'd encourage you to try Fedora Workstation for your family -- we've worked on making upgrades painless, so that they're basically an automated thing that happens while you go for coffee once or twice a year (at your option). But second, if a "Fedora LTS" would fit your needs, why not give CentOS Stream a look? It's not actually going to be that different from CentOS Linux,…

Thank you for the reply. While I personally never had a single issue with upgrading between Fedora releases, I also have the skills the resolve any potential ones if I would. I don't want to deal with somebody's computer suddenly being borked halfway across the world with no way to assist. So far CentOS fit that niche beautifully, with seldom major clean reinstalls (i.e. wipe root) when I'm there (7.x > 8.x). I'm going to evaluate CentOS Stream and perhaps you are right and it's a viable replacement.

Re: CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream

#109

Post by awill »

This is awful. It's proof of the downsides to the IBM acquisition, which I think we all knew was coming. Imagine if you were running a business, and deployed CentOS 8 based on the 10 year lifespan promise. You're totally screwed now, and Red Hat knows it. Why on earth didn't they make this switch starting with CentOS 9???? Let's not sugar coat this. They've betrayed their users.

I personally run a CentOS 7 server (as do members of my family), and was planning on upgrading them all to 8. Luckily, I didn't get round to it yet. I guess I'll have to consider an alternative. For my server I want a boring, stable OS, so I'm definitely not using Streams. This is going to ripple throughout the whole industry, as CentOS is used all over the place, from regular home users to businesses (and things like CloudLinux).

It's very disappointing that Red Hat can't see the damage they'll do not only to the community, but to themselves too. Someone will come along and take the CentOS user base, and it won't be Red Hat :(.

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