First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK • Hacker News Board

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#291

Post by bun_at_work » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #271

iso1631 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Require proof of vaccine to come to Austraila. Native population mostly vaccinated. Even if someone did manage to get in with covid, it might not spread particularly easily. Sure covid will probably continue to exist, just like H1N1 exists

> Sure covid will probably continue to exist, just like H1N1 exists Flu immunity only lasts 6 months. COVID immunity seems to already be longer than Flu / H1N1 immunity. Now if COVID immunity is only 1-year or 2-years, then yes, it will flare up over time. But if COVID immunity is like 5 years or 10 years, then we can pretty much forget-about-it after the vaccine. No one knows how long the immunity is, aside from las…

What do you mean flu immunity only lasts 6mo? As I understand it, flu vaccines are done yearly due to mutations rendering the vaccine impotent for the next strain. However, it seems like you're implying that the vaccine "wears off" or something.

What do you mean?

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#292

Post by dragontamer » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 4:35 PM UTC

bun_at_work wrote: post #291

dragontamer wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure covid will probably continue to exist, just like H1N1 exists Flu immunity only lasts 6 months. COVID immunity seems to already be longer than Flu / H1N1 immunity. Now if COVID immunity is only 1-year or 2-years, then yes, it will flare up over time. But if COVID immunity is like 5 years or 10 years, then we can pretty much forget-about-it after the vaccine. No one knows how long the immunity is, aside from las…

What do you mean flu immunity only lasts 6mo? As I understand it, flu vaccines are done yearly due to mutations rendering the vaccine impotent for the next strain. However, it seems like you're implying that the vaccine "wears off" or something. What do you mean?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm

> However, getting vaccinated early (for example, in July or August) is likely to be associated with reduced protection against flu infection later in the flu season, particularly among older adults

August / July is too early, people's flu immunity wears off before the end of the season. This is well known.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#293

Post by bun_at_work » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 4:36 PM UTC

weddpros wrote: post #110

nl wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting downvotes, but it is at least somewhat correct. > it protects you from the effects of Covid-19, the disease, caused by your body's reaction to the virus. There isn't really evidence either way for this. To quote Nature[1]: "Tests on more than 43,000 people have shown that the Pfizer vaccine is 95% effective at preventing disease" > vaccination doesn't mean you cannot get the virus and spread it around…

How can the vaccine prevent entry of the virus in cells, yet the virus can still replicate? I can’t understand why they state we don’t know, because of how I image viruses and vaccination works. Can someone help me understand this paradox?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQGOcOUBi6s

Here's a nice video on the immune system that might help you out. Their other videos on the immune system, the complement system, and viruses might also be helpful. Not the most technical deep dives, but good, abstracted explanations.

In short, I don't think the vaccine prevents entry of the virus into the cells. That still happens, as it's a mechanical protein interaction (as far as I know). However, the vaccine (mRNA ones at least) work by producing the protein on the outside of the virus and putting that in your system, so your immune system learns how to respond. At least that's my mile-high interpretation.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#294

Post by irthomasthomas » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

Some quick points about this.

The British Medical Journal and Royal Society of medicine have published a number of concerns about this vaccine.

"Will covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren’t designed to tell us" https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037

"All these data for the different vaccines are potentially very promising, but none of the phase III trials have been published in peer reviewed journals or analysed by age group, gender and case description...

As public health professionals, we believe that the results of clinical trials, whether interim or final, should be subject to an appropriate systematic process, and then published in peer-reviewed professional journals. Reporting the covid-19 vaccine trial results in press releases before publication in journals is neither good scientific practice nor does it help to build public trust in vaccines" https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/11/27/covid-19-vaccines-where...

"When good science is suppressed by the medical-political complex, people die

Politicians and governments are suppressing science. They do so in the public interest, they say, to accelerate availability of diagnostics and treatments. They do so to support innovation, to bring products to market at unprecedented speed. Both of these reasons are partly plausible; the greatest deceptions are founded in a grain of truth. But the underlying behaviour is troubling." https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#295

Post by string » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

ulfw wrote: post #253

dm319 wrote: post #180

I work here and was in clinic this morning. We had three eligible patients. One consented to it and is having the vaccine now. The other two declined. Not making a point, just a data point.

If they don't want it, I'm more than happy to fly to the UK to get it. Hong Kong doesn't seem to want to vaccinate most people before 2022 https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/artic...

I suppose that's one way of keeping protesters off the streets.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#296

Post by bun_at_work » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #292

bun_at_work wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean flu immunity only lasts 6mo? As I understand it, flu vaccines are done yearly due to mutations rendering the vaccine impotent for the next strain. However, it seems like you're implying that the vaccine "wears off" or something. What do you mean?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm > However, getting vaccinated early (for example, in July or August) is likely to be associated with reduced protection against flu infection later in the flu season, particularly among older adults August / July is too early, people's flu immunity wears off before the end of the season. This is well known.

Thanks for the share. From the link:

> Why do I need a flu vaccine every year? A flu vaccine is needed every season for two reasons. First, a person’s immune protection from vaccination declines over time, so an annual vaccine is needed for optimal protection. Second, because flu viruses are constantly changing, flu vaccines may be updated from one season to the next to protect against the viruses that research suggests may be most common during the upcoming flu season. For the best protection, everyone 6 months and older should get vaccinated annually.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#297

Post by pepperberg » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

I have one question regarding the current Pfizer data (it would be great if anyone with experience in statistics could help out):

UK healthcare professionals received this information called "REG 174 INFORMATION FOR UK HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS" [1]

It states that the "efficacy of COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 [for 75 years of age and older] was [...] 100% (two-sided 95% confidence interval of -13.1% to 100.0%)"

What does this mean? With my very minimal university statistics knowledge I would say that they are 95% sure that the efficacy lies between -13.1% and 100.0% for age >=75. And that means: We simply do not know (probably due to lack of data in this cohort). Where am I making an error?

Thank you in advance!

[1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#298

Post by minikites » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #98

ck2 wrote: post #14

Good luck to the average person getting it in the USA before March. Even with half the population refusing it because the anti-vax people might be even more crazy than the anti-maskers. Which makes you wonder which country will have covid longest.

Can someone explain why it’s not enough to just vaccinate people who want to get vaccinated? Doesn’t that cover everyone who wants to avoid covid19?

For the same reason everyone who buys a motor vehicle has to buy one with a catalytic converter. The actions of every individual affect society as a whole.

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#299

Post by pwinnski » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

figaroniguzo wrote: post #133

Munksgaard wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really true? I know that, at least here in Denmark, the relevant authority has sent out a note saying, explicitly, that dying of eg. a heart attack, while infected with COVID-19, does not count as a COVID-19 death. It also explicitly says the same thing about motor-cycle accidents, which I know has been a rumor that has made the rounds. Source: https://sundhedsdatastyrelsen.dk/-/media/sds/filer/rammer-og...

10 seconds Googling: https://cbs12.com/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-cras... Many other stories like that

Maybe you should spend more than 10 seconds Googling?

You could, for example, read the story you linked, which states: "Despite health officials knowing the man died in a motorcycle crash, it is unclear whether or not his death was removed from the overall count in the state."

So it's a nothing story, with no statement of fact included at all. Just "unclear whether or not" against repeated statements by state officials that "not."

Re: First person receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine in UK

#300

Post by dragontamer » Tue, Dec 08, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

bun_at_work wrote: post #296

dragontamer wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/keyfacts.htm > However, getting vaccinated early (for example, in July or August) is likely to be associated with reduced protection against flu infection later in the flu season, particularly among older adults August / July is too early, people's flu immunity wears off before the end of the season. This is well known.

Thanks for the share. From the link: > Why do I need a flu vaccine every year? A flu vaccine is needed every season for two reasons. First, a person’s immune protection from vaccination declines over time, so an annual vaccine is needed for optimal protection. Second, because flu viruses are constantly changing, flu vaccines may be updated from one season to the next to protect against the viruses that research sugge…

Yeah, you're not wrong, but neither am I. Both effects happen. The flu has unusually short immunity in humans: most diseases have an immunity that lasts longer than that.

A big worry about COVID19 was the length of immunity. As a novel disease, no one knew how long human immunity would last. Fortunately, it seems to be for a long time (more than 8 months, which is the length of time these studies have been going). As such, we know COVID19 immunity is "longer than the flu", already.