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Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

amusingplanet.com

71–80 of 122 posts

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#71
post #37

Looks like anyone wanting to invade is in for a rough patch, but maybe modern tech renders these types of things worthless. Considering what a rough time the US (and Russia) has had in Afghanistan, I suspect they'd still be fairly effective.

If you want to defeat the Swiss, and keep in mind what kind of enemy would want to do that, just start carpet bombing where the actual people live. That and they only have about 25 aircraft that could realistically do any good air defense work. The idea that the US would struggle against Switzerland is predicated on them not doing that, because they would've had to found a reason to invade in the first place.

They protect themselves from the US by being banker to a lot of their dirty money.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#73
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a Swiss, so I don't know what your army strategists are preparing for, but generally a military staff plans for dozens of scenarios, not a single one. The overall trend of conflicts has changed, but the frequency has not. This might surprise you. There have been many conflicts since WW2 and even the end of the CW https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Du... I agree that a bottomless barrel…

I have to agree with this assessment. The opinion provided by /u/Shacklz is unfortunately rather widespread in Switzerland and mostly based on some outdated views on the role of the army ("plausible during the height of the cold war"). As Switzerland's strategic reserve, the army has a broad array of tasks, ranging from support in low threat levels (current example: preparing for the storage and distribution of Covid…

> mostly based on some outdated views on the role of the army

And this is where we differ - I think _your_ opinion is outdated ;) The services that you listed mostly do not require an "army", what exactly is camouflage gear & combat training good for with regards to helping with covid-related tasks (or any other "Katastrophenhilfe"-related endeavour)?

The "Swiss army knife" metaphor is exactly what I so despise about the Swiss army; it's their excuse for essentially being an eternal "Pfadilager" for adults. Actual participation in conflicts mentioned by GP aren't an option anyway thanks to Switzerland's neutrality.

Luckily, it seems the trend is clearly in my opinion's favor, as was evident once again with the results of the last referendum on fighter jets - the pro-army-folks are a dying breed, it is just a matter of time until the 'Wehrpflicht' is finally abolished (I estimate it takes another ~20 years or so until the cold war era generation starts to become a minority), and when that happens, it's just a matter of time until the rest of the army gets to boot too, as all the nostalgia-driven sentiments towards it will not exist anymore (currently, put 10 Swiss men in a room, and it will take at most half an hour until their army experience becomes a topic).

And you know what? It'll be for the better of the world, and Switzerland especially. Finally, we will be able to say "We do not participate in this barbarian head smashing anymore, we're civilized folks"; someone needs to make the start and Switzerland is in the best position to do so. We're already not participating anyway; but we're still training generation after generation to do so; and this needs to stop eventually. My hope is that this will be the case in the next 20-30 years or so, I wouldn't mind if it was earlier ;)

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#74
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those were unguided bombs. Modern artillery and mortars will just slowly wear down a static target like that. From a safe distance as well.

And that comes for free? It binds ressources. Lots of them. You even write "slowly". Meaning fortification is still effective. While the enemy artillery is busy bombing stone, your troops can attack other targets from from other angles.

That's right. But civilians believe the US air force is omnipotent.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#75
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those were unguided bombs. Modern artillery and mortars will just slowly wear down a static target like that. From a safe distance as well.

it was still 1400 tons of high explosive. Monte Cassino was reduced to rubble. The entire monastery was reduced to ruble and had to be rebuild from the ground up. Also, the US did have artillery at the time, which is bloody precise. It didn't matter, the Monte Cassino was a meat grinder for the Allies. Anyway, why dredge WWII era stuff? The US got spanked in Afghanistan by an irregular militia with bolt action rifles…

not sure if you got flagged because Afghanistan didn't have actual 'castles' or because some American Exceptionalists took exception to your language...

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though you can nuke (allmost) anything, fortified bunkers are still (the most) effective fortification. There is lots of massive stone protecting them after all, you have to blast through. Which can be done, but is still a massive effort. Unless you really know (and guard) all the exits and control the surface, how could modern tech render them useless? For primitive caves(targeting Taliban), I believe there was…

Häh? I think the modern way to take swiss bunkers out is to go around them: drive the Franc up to economy-killing levels, and tell the SNB they'll get cut out of the global financial system if they even attempt to defend reasonable exchange rates.

You can take my money but you can't take my homeland.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#77
post #64
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with this assessment. The opinion provided by /u/Shacklz is unfortunately rather widespread in Switzerland and mostly based on some outdated views on the role of the army ("plausible during the height of the cold war"). As Switzerland's strategic reserve, the army has a broad array of tasks, ranging from support in low threat levels (current example: preparing for the storage and distribution of Covid…

The recent vote to buy expensive planes confirms many swiss and myself included in the opinion that efficient defense capabilities clearly is not the national focus. There were two main points in support of planes: - policing the skies - radar tech As for policing, I'm quite sure many swiss would prefer to have 2-3 high-speed unarmed exploratory planes instead. Wanna shoot down the offender? Just a single missile bas…

> Just a single missile base

What could go wrong?

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was still 1400 tons of high explosive. Monte Cassino was reduced to rubble. The entire monastery was reduced to ruble and had to be rebuild from the ground up. Also, the US did have artillery at the time, which is bloody precise. It didn't matter, the Monte Cassino was a meat grinder for the Allies. Anyway, why dredge WWII era stuff? The US got spanked in Afghanistan by an irregular militia with bolt action rifles…

not sure if you got flagged because Afghanistan didn't have actual 'castles' or because some American Exceptionalists took exception to your language...

He probably got flagged for his other post.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#79
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent vote to buy expensive planes confirms many swiss and myself included in the opinion that efficient defense capabilities clearly is not the national focus. There were two main points in support of planes: - policing the skies - radar tech As for policing, I'm quite sure many swiss would prefer to have 2-3 high-speed unarmed exploratory planes instead. Wanna shoot down the offender? Just a single missile bas…

> Just a single missile base What could go wrong?

Even 10 missile bases would still be cheaper than the planes we bought.

Now what could go wrong with limitless military spending, you might ask? Easy: it's called "the USA". I've been there, and I don't want to go back.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#80
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to defeat the Swiss, and keep in mind what kind of enemy would want to do that, just start carpet bombing where the actual people live. That and they only have about 25 aircraft that could realistically do any good air defense work. The idea that the US would struggle against Switzerland is predicated on them not doing that, because they would've had to found a reason to invade in the first place.

They protect themselves from the US by being banker to a lot of their dirty money.

Delaware...
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