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Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

amusingplanet.com

51–60 of 122 posts

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#51
post #38

The living example of the aphorism "Si vis pacem, para bellum" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_vis_pacem,_para_bellum

War with whom? 25 C model F-18s aren't going to stop any nation large enough to consider invading the world's bank in the first place.

Switzerland has 30 F-18 (originally 32 but 2 crashed), and 53 F-5. The Tiger are due to be replaced soon as the people voted to buy new airplanes.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#52
post #3

I was in many of them, one of the most impressive was "the 5-star hotel" with a hall so big that you could calibrate tank-cannons and in another "bunker/fortress" you could "throw" out f-18 fighter-jets. Edit: BTW that the entrance of the 5-Star: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Me... The plate is for making fun of new recruits because it's the opposite of a "5-Star" and for sure not a "Hotel…

To hijack your comment: all of these type of bunkers mentioned in the article are decommissioned as they don't match the modern military doctrine. The majority of these bunkers are artillery and anti-tank bunkers built during the cold war (some during WWII) to play a decisive role in large tank battles.

The article confuses this, as there were some plans in actually deconstructing them which however turned out to be too expensive. So virtually all of these bunkers were indeed decommissioned and most also declassified in the last 10 years (some turned into a museum e.g. a WWII bunker https://www.crestawald.ch/). Others, such as the Castello mentioned by /u/nix23 are used as temporary barracks for troops, but don't have an actual defensive function any more.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A castle gives you a hard time when you only have a gun. If the military has aircraft, missile launchers, and artillery, they'll be flattened before any fighting occurs. Plus it's a pretty easy target.

From Wikipedia about Monte Cassino "On 15 February American bombers dropped 1,400 tons of high explosives, creating widespread damage.[6] The raid failed to achieve its objective, as German paratroopers then occupied the rubble and established excellent defensive positions amid the ruins. "

Those were unguided bombs. Modern artillery and mortars will just slowly wear down a static target like that. From a safe distance as well.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#55
post #38

The living example of the aphorism "Si vis pacem, para bellum" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_vis_pacem,_para_bellum

War with whom? 25 C model F-18s aren't going to stop any nation large enough to consider invading the world's bank in the first place.

How effective would the Swiss military really be? I looked up the last military operation they were in and couldn’t find anything relevant. Looks like they do extraordinary light peacekeeping and such. (Yes, yes, they’re “neutral”. Suppose I assumed they were still deploying with western bloc powers at least for some sort of combat experience training.)

Seems like the military is more for show than anything else at this point. I can’t imagine a populace living some of the most privileged European/western lives possible would have the stomach for its populace taking heavy casualties in any form of conflict.

The terrain is seemingly still their best advantage, but with modern air power this feels more like some sort of historical LARP the Swiss are proud of more than a force that would really achieve anything.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#56
post #52
post #3

I was in many of them, one of the most impressive was "the 5-star hotel" with a hall so big that you could calibrate tank-cannons and in another "bunker/fortress" you could "throw" out f-18 fighter-jets. Edit: BTW that the entrance of the 5-Star: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Me... The plate is for making fun of new recruits because it's the opposite of a "5-Star" and for sure not a "Hotel…

To hijack your comment: all of these type of bunkers mentioned in the article are decommissioned as they don't match the modern military doctrine. The majority of these bunkers are artillery and anti-tank bunkers built during the cold war (some during WWII) to play a decisive role in large tank battles. The article confuses this, as there were some plans in actually deconstructing them which however turned out to be…

True the only still kind of used ones are the command bunkers, and even they are really outdated.

>Others, such as the Castello mentioned by /u/nix23 are used as temporary barracks for troops, but don't have an actual defensive function any more.

But temporary is not quite right when it's used for then first 10 weeks of recruiting school ;)

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A castle gives you a hard time when you only have a gun. If the military has aircraft, missile launchers, and artillery, they'll be flattened before any fighting occurs. Plus it's a pretty easy target.

From Wikipedia about Monte Cassino "On 15 February American bombers dropped 1,400 tons of high explosives, creating widespread damage.[6] The raid failed to achieve its objective, as German paratroopers then occupied the rubble and established excellent defensive positions amid the ruins. "

What's often not told of the Battle of Monte Cassino is the destruction of a jewel of the West.

To the Germans' credit, they offered not to take the monastery as a position if the Allies wouldn't bomb it. They only took the advantageous positions after it'd been reduced to ruble.

The Germans also helped evacuate as much of the stuff inside as possible, moving it to the Vatican, where the monks trusted the Germans wouldn't steal the stuff. To further trust amongst the locals and monks, a monk accompanied every truck to the Vatican. As a result most of the library was saved.

Monte Cassino is one of the (many) examples of Allied war crimes and one of the (very) few examples of German honor in WWII.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#58
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Wikipedia about Monte Cassino "On 15 February American bombers dropped 1,400 tons of high explosives, creating widespread damage.[6] The raid failed to achieve its objective, as German paratroopers then occupied the rubble and established excellent defensive positions amid the ruins. "

Those were unguided bombs. Modern artillery and mortars will just slowly wear down a static target like that. From a safe distance as well.

And that comes for free?

It binds ressources. Lots of them. You even write "slowly". Meaning fortification is still effective.

While the enemy artillery is busy bombing stone, your troops can attack other targets from from other angles.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#59
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Wikipedia about Monte Cassino "On 15 February American bombers dropped 1,400 tons of high explosives, creating widespread damage.[6] The raid failed to achieve its objective, as German paratroopers then occupied the rubble and established excellent defensive positions amid the ruins. "

Those were unguided bombs. Modern artillery and mortars will just slowly wear down a static target like that. From a safe distance as well.

it was still 1400 tons of high explosive. Monte Cassino was reduced to rubble. The entire monastery was reduced to ruble and had to be rebuild from the ground up. Also, the US did have artillery at the time, which is bloody precise.

It didn't matter, the Monte Cassino was a meat grinder for the Allies.

Anyway, why dredge WWII era stuff? The US got spanked in Afghanistan by an irregular militia with bolt action rifles. And their tactic is simple as it is brilliant - negate the advantage of air raids by fighting as close to the enemy as possible.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#60
post #36
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

West Germany did much the same with all roads and train tracks crossing into East Germany and Czechoslovakia. There were pre-made holes in the roads to blast craters into them. Bridges and tunnels were prepared similarly. It was also rumored that the explosive charges were mounted in place all the time, but I don't believe that part anymore.

They weren't mounted, they were kept in a nearby bunker. The charges were standardized round flat 50kg lumps, called cheese charges because they looked like a wheel of cheese. The roads and bridges had prepared openings looking like a normal gutter (round in germany) into which the cheese charges fit perfectly. The top plate could often be recognized because there was a single number stamped in, telling you how many…

Sweden had preparations like this for roads and ports.
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