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Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

amusingplanet.com

31–40 of 122 posts

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#31
post #4

But what about air flow / ventilation in these? Many seem to have no windows.

Could you provide some examples of typical bunkers with copious windows? Are they usually dressed with curtains? Any nice patterns? I am particular fond of flowers.

No. Hence the curiosity.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#32
post #28

Looks like anyone wanting to invade is in for a rough patch, but maybe modern tech renders these types of things worthless. Considering what a rough time the US (and Russia) has had in Afghanistan, I suspect they'd still be fairly effective.

This made me remember something about castles... I was wondering, how useful are ancient castles in modern battles? Armchair generals all over the planet kept prattling about them being useless because modern weaponry is awesome and all... Then I went to look properly: 1. Kerak de Chevaliers, yes, that one crusader castle, was occupied during the Syrian war, and gave a hard time to the enemy outside, the castle worke…

> 3. A fortified monastery gave enemies a hard time in WW2 in Italy, I forgot its name now.

Monte Cassino?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Monte_Cassino

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#34
post #28

Looks like anyone wanting to invade is in for a rough patch, but maybe modern tech renders these types of things worthless. Considering what a rough time the US (and Russia) has had in Afghanistan, I suspect they'd still be fairly effective.

This made me remember something about castles... I was wondering, how useful are ancient castles in modern battles? Armchair generals all over the planet kept prattling about them being useless because modern weaponry is awesome and all... Then I went to look properly: 1. Kerak de Chevaliers, yes, that one crusader castle, was occupied during the Syrian war, and gave a hard time to the enemy outside, the castle worke…

A castle gives you a hard time when you only have a gun. If the military has aircraft, missile launchers, and artillery, they'll be flattened before any fighting occurs. Plus it's a pretty easy target.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#35
post #23

Fun Fact: The Swiss once lost tanks in their underground networks. Around 400. https://www.nzz.ch/maurers_schimmelnde_panzer-1.8120259

While such stories and the pictures posted here are rather interesting, as a Swiss, I also find it at the same time quite depressing. The Swiss army is a bottomless barrel when it comes to funding; always requiring & demanding money, while preparing for scenarios that were maybe somewhat plausible during the height of the cold war but are nowadays obviously antiquated, plain for anyone to see who doesn't wear the nos…

I'm not a Swiss, so I don't know what your army strategists are preparing for, but generally a military staff plans for dozens of scenarios, not a single one. The overall trend of conflicts has changed, but the frequency has not. This might surprise you. There have been many conflicts since WW2 and even the end of the CW

https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Du...

I agree that a bottomless barrel of funding is the wrong approach and they should get it together

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#36
post #24
post #8

Also an interesting fact: The Swiss packed all bridges connecting Switzerland to Germany with tons of explosives until just recently. The wooden bridge [0] connecting Bad Säckingen with Stein contained hundreds of kilo of TNT until 2015. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holzbr%C3%BCcke_Bad_S%C3%A4cki...

West Germany did much the same with all roads and train tracks crossing into East Germany and Czechoslovakia. There were pre-made holes in the roads to blast craters into them. Bridges and tunnels were prepared similarly. It was also rumored that the explosive charges were mounted in place all the time, but I don't believe that part anymore.

They weren't mounted, they were kept in a nearby bunker. The charges were standardized round flat 50kg lumps, called cheese charges because they looked like a wheel of cheese. The roads and bridges had prepared openings looking like a normal gutter (round in germany) into which the cheese charges fit perfectly. The top plate could often be recognized because there was a single number stamped in, telling you how many cheese charges to load. What was always present however was the initiator charge and the wiring to the nearby bunker.

There were even more interesting things like the new Elbtunnel in Hamburg having massive blocks of concrete above all entrances. The girders holding those blocks were intended to be cut by explosive charges drop the blocks, blocking the tunnel.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#37

Looks like anyone wanting to invade is in for a rough patch, but maybe modern tech renders these types of things worthless. Considering what a rough time the US (and Russia) has had in Afghanistan, I suspect they'd still be fairly effective.

If you want to defeat the Swiss, and keep in mind what kind of enemy would want to do that, just start carpet bombing where the actual people live.

That and they only have about 25 aircraft that could realistically do any good air defense work.

The idea that the US would struggle against Switzerland is predicated on them not doing that, because they would've had to found a reason to invade in the first place.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#38

The living example of the aphorism "Si vis pacem, para bellum" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_vis_pacem,_para_bellum

War with whom? 25 C model F-18s aren't going to stop any nation large enough to consider invading the world's bank in the first place.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#39
post #9

Oh these are cool. When I was a teen, I stayed in one during a trek in the Alps; and then again (in another one) a few years later when I was a youth camp counselor myself. I was cooking dinner in the kitchen of the one we were staying at, and the supervisor came in, and casually told us "see that trap door you're standing on? If this bunker would actually be used during war, that's where any dead bodies would be sto…

I've heard those trap doors referred to as leichenluke

Many of my older neighbors said pre-1990, these bunkers were used in a drill and everyone realized how cramped things were; I believe they've been retrofit for far less occupants now.

Re: Camouflaged Military Bunkers of Switzerland (2015)

#40

Looks like anyone wanting to invade is in for a rough patch, but maybe modern tech renders these types of things worthless. Considering what a rough time the US (and Russia) has had in Afghanistan, I suspect they'd still be fairly effective.

Even though you can nuke (allmost) anything, fortified bunkers are still (the most) effective fortification.

There is lots of massive stone protecting them after all, you have to blast through. Which can be done, but is still a massive effort.

Unless you really know (and guard) all the exits and control the surface, how could modern tech render them useless?

For primitive caves(targeting Taliban), I believe there was a weapon developed where shockwave (and gas?) would kill anyone inside, but if you have multiple blast doors and air filtration inside, you still have to cut or blast your way inside.

And fighting in an enemy underground network is not something any soldier would look forward to.

So I guess the modern way to take the swiss bunkers out, would be

a) really scout them out

b) target critical infrastructure (bunker breaking bombs)

c) destroy all the exits

or

d) infiltration with commando troops

or

e) blow up the whole mountain

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