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With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

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Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#471

Post by kuschku »

kortilla wrote: post #355
eptcyka wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the game servers could not send the whole game state to each client and validate input it receives from each client? Banning blatant aimbots is just a pure statistics thing. Also, you could just train ai to detect patterns of cheating via an adversarial model where you pit normal ai against ai that uses the cheats you currently detect via rootkits. Games should not be part of my ring 0.

> Banning blatant aimbots is just a pure statistics thing. So you have two choices here. You either ban the best players or the aim bots just behave with a success rate close to the best players.

So, if you allow bots that behave exactly like humans, then what's so bad about that?

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#472

Post by benhurmarcel »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #305
akhosravian wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not op, but I think the biggest miss in cloud gaming is no one developing cloud first multiplayer games. Currently in any kind of client-server multiplayer game out there you face n+1 game states (n is the number of players) and a lot of the art is in how to reconcile these. The n+1 is due to most games implementing some degree of client autonomy (e.g. in movement), and the reality of network round trips from each cl…

The thing you're missing is that the point of client-side simulation and lag compensation is simply one of UX. It makes the game playable. > Cloud gaming substitutes reconciling these n+1 simulations with some input latency for each player. You're just pitching the naive networking model that every developer starts with (because it's trivial) until they realize how horrendous it is to wait 100ms on every single input…

A lot of people have a much better latency than 40ms.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#473

Post by popeathlete »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #374
lambda_obrien wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rdr2? Fuck, I'm in. I built a PC that i couldn't get windows running on due to some stupid uefi or something, i can't figure it out so it's sitting in the corner and I'm using a PlayStation now. I'll try putting Linux on it so i can use them games i bought but couldn't use because software is a fucking drm nightmare these days.

Okay, while I'd definitely suggest just saying "fuck off to windows" 100% at this point... I mean it plays RDR2?! That was the moment I said "holy shit, I'm never going back" haha. Anyway to the point... If you do ever really need to install Windows from a USB stick the only fucking thing I swear always works is using Rufus: https://rufus.ie/ Last time I had to like bootstrap a Windows install without an existing one…

Fucking fuck FUCK! Oh and by the way which distro do you use?

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#474

Post by marvinblum »

I was shocked how well even tripple A games work out of the box when I installed Metro Exodus recently. I get 60fps+ on 4k at max settings on my 1080TI on Manjaro Gnome. Here is a screenshot: https://twitter.com/m5blum/status/1312878889711079426

I still keep Windows around as a dual boot option for games that don't work well with Proton though, but I barely need to use it.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#475

Post by Yizahi »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #311
Ericson2314 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PC gaming is like the last bastion of quasi-mainstream general compute at home, so I seriously hope it doesn't go away.

I never bought another game on my girlfriend's console after considering the fact that I have games in my Steam library that I bought 10+ years ago while the $60 game I buy on her console just lasts until the hardware breaks and they shut down the eShop. That's such a bad deal I'm surprised that I ever made it. Aside, I wonder how much the jumbo-sized ATX / tower PC case market has sold consoles by making people thin…

SFFPC is still too much hassle for an average builder, plus "ITX tax" is not very attractive too. I have built my first SFF last winter and I had to read that sub for a long time to find out all compatibility issues, and even then I ran into incompatible cooler mount and MB, I had to use a bit of force to set CPU cooler on a crooked mount. And latest trend of AIB GPU manufacturers to abandon 2-slot format is also not good for SFF.

Another issue are thermals. I can find out that my SSD is overheating to 105* in the nice looking ITX case and mitigate that a little (I have to hope now that 82-83* on a working SSD won't kill it too fast). Average user will see this by a blue smoke coming out of the case :)

I wish there was more initiative from big manufacturers in that area.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#477

Post by b0rsuk »

invokestatic wrote: post #112
izacus wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern anticheats are basically kernel rootkits which go even to the point of trying to checksum your drivers and inspect how they work. They're basically as invasive as they get. They obviously can't hook into Linux kernel so they react by just banning the player.

Now I'm biased because I'm an anti-cheat developer, but I really can't see how checking the integrity of your installed kernel device drivers is at all invasive.

Does anyone know a PC gaming website that regularly reviews anti-cheat software? I know review websites get free sample copies and stuff from game publishers... are there any review websites which serve gamers first??

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#478

Post by waterhouse »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #282
adambyrtek wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that trade-off should be more flexible and dependent on the "league" a given player wants to play in. The criteria could be more strict for the "pros" where cheating can lead to significant gains, like professional athletes who have to pass regular anti-doping tests, but you wouldn't expect the same invasive checks from (for example) people participating in a charity run.

The problem with your idea is that nobody wants to play with cheaters. Everything that makes the game fun is defeated by a single cheater. So people are just going to choose between playing with 0 cheaters or go play a different game.

Years ago I read about some game service that detected cheating and put cheaters into games with other cheaters. The author said it was pretty effective.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#479

Post by b0rsuk »

z3t4 wrote: post #340
shuringai wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do share your frustration on linux gaming I thought to give sound to the opposing side who simply had this coming oit of a risk analysis. TL;DR - it's indeed much easier to cheat on linux After decades of fighting wars with crackers/reversers and all anti-debug/anti-cheat methods proven unusable against russian teenagers, AAA companies reached out to microsoft to get their undocumented binary "drivers" into t…

In a competitive game don't let clients dictate what the server does. Although I understand there is a performance issue. But clients should not be trusted.

Would aimbots be impossible to make if there was no anti-lag / network prediction code? As a thought experiment, imagine a game which has only single player and LAN multiplayer (Local Area Network), where you have to physically connect computers to each other. Games used to be played like that decades ago, and today we have PCs that are much more mobile - notebooks and laptops. As far as I know, LAN has super good network latency and it could work without lag compensation code. Didn't DooM work like that? Also Quake before QuakeWorld.

You don't have to lecture me about the practicality of releasing a game that has LAN only multiplayer, or that people have jobs, kids and responsibilities. I get that.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#480

Post by rkangel »

pkaye wrote: post #265
jasonjayr wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's none of the game's business what other software my computer is running. These checks have in the past been notoriously buggy, and can interfere with other operations. This kind of crud is what remote attestation is for, and Microsoft should be responsible for developing it, not every different gaming company competing with each other for kernel access.

What if they gave you the ability to disable anti-cheat checks but put you up against others who do the same?

I play various games where they developers try hard to prevent cheaters and they still get through and ruin a small but significant percentage of the games. I can't imagine how crappy an experience it would be if there was no cheat protection at all.
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