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Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

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Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a ridiculous take. There’s a lot of technical talent trapped in the Bay Area and I welcome it in my region. Treating every resident as if they agree with the repressive SF politics is over generalizing. And who’s full? The main thing the flyover states need is more people.

The irony is it's the 'fuck off we're full' people that have made CA policy shitty. It's the NIMBY anti-change response to policy. The people that want a strong economy, incentivize building housing, and adapting lead to positive non-zero-sum outcomes. The people that say "fuck off we're full" block any policy and create perverse incentives that create a dysfunctional mess. This is ignoring the selection bias that th…

But isn't NIMBYism perfectly natural?

I looked around, I found a place I like, to I settled there and I want it to stay this way.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#812
post #718
post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They do indeed live without owning cars. They also use Ubers, ZipCars, and regular rental all the time. Is there that much of a difference between owning a car and renting a car or using Zip or having a chauffer (Lyft, Uber, taxis) tote you around? I'd get rid of my car too if I could afford to have Uber haul me everywhere.

> Is there that much of a difference between owning a car...? I'd get rid of my car too if I could afford to have Uber haul me everywhere. With reference to my sibling comment, definitively yes. I personally spent less on a handful of Lyft rides per month in Houston than I did on insurance alone when I owned a car. Never mind the cost of the vehicle itself, gas, any repairs... Even adding in the cost of my rail and b…

But SF is one of the most expensive living cost, so I suspect that spending for cars isn't much issue.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#813
post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No my main point is that people on here are reading into Rabois’ comments on quality of life issues at face value and not recognizing that his move out of state at this moment in time has to do with avoiding taxes on his IPO gains and not much else.

How do taxes work in the US? I find it so complicated! So California has their own state Capital gains tax? How much is that?

In summary, for normal people, taxes in the US come at federal, state and local levels.

1. Federal:

a) Income tax of 10% on income over around $12k (single) or $24k (married) up to 37% on income over $518k (single) to $622k (married). Capital gains tax is at the same rate for assets held less than a year but up to only 20% for assets held more than one year.

b) FICA, a wage tax. You pay for 7.65% for social security and medicare/medicaid on all wages up to around $133k and 0% above that.

2) State. This varies widely. Some states have no income tax, some states have income tax rates of as high as 13.3% (California). Most are around 5%. Each state has different deductions and rules. Capital gains is usually included in this. Most states (but not all) also levy a sales tax of around 4% to 8% on retail transactions.

3) Local. Most local taxes are in the form of property tax on real estate. The rates vary from around 0.5% to 2% of property value. Some towns levy a separate sales tax on top of a state one (if it exists). The real estate and sales taxes are used to fund schools, police, fire, etc. Many municipalities also levy fees for water, trash, etc. Some cities also have an income tax (for example NYC).

To give you an idea of just how complex it is, the US has approximately 11,000 different sales tax jurisdictions. And it's not just a matter of rates. What is taxed and in what context varies. For example, in NYC, food from groceries is not subject to sales tax. But food from restaurants is. Unless, I think the restaurant has no more than some minimum of seats and you orders your food to go. Some sales taxes can also vary by date (i.e. sales tax during summer, but otherwise none). There are also occasional sales tax "holidays" where no sales tax is charged.

Unsurprisingly, tax lawyers and accountants make good money in the USA :-)

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they just never really liked the city. Pretty hard to like a city where a non-trivial portion of the residents are hating on you and blaming you and others like you for many problems of their own doing. I left a year ago and I personally hope both San Francisco and all of California suffers fiscal collapse. The state grossly mistreats it's most productive citizens, when its those very citizens that fund the greates…

I can echo this. I loved the bay when I first moved here 8 years ago, but the political dynamic of the area, and the ever growing drug/homelessness crisis said dynamic is completely unable to deal with, both have just worn my enthusiasm away.

Not all tech employees wanted to live in SF and commute for 4 hours a day. Cities like Palo Alto and Mountain View had severe restrictions on building housing. So SF, Oakland and San Jose took the burden of housing the techies. Naturally people here got angry. But instead of focusing the anger in solving problems it was extremely common for people I meet to loudly complain about tech workers - bars, parties, nextdoor and side walks were full of hate messages. I left the city 3 years ago and I completely understand how frustrating it is.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#815
post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how to respond but no their success comes from being in Silicon Valley at the right time and developing relationships within this ecosystem. So no I disagree that if Rabois was somehow not in Silicon Valley that he’d be just as successful and wealthy as he is now. And I’m speaking about his investments. Cutting a check is not “hard work”. You could argue Musk is different because he’s actually the CEO of…

Why is Silicon Valley where it is other than accident of history? The US government could have made military investments elsewhere and Fairchild Semiconductor would have just as easily been in another state. California and the SF Bay Area doesn't get credit for that. Heck, Silicon Valley was a bunch of fruit orchards for decades. Could have been a different set of fruit orchards in a different state. Had Fairchild be…

I think you're severely underestimating the impact of California's investment in education. UC Berkeley and Stanford (private, but accepts state research grants) are top institutions which had for decades attracted some of the brightest minds (professors and students) to the area. These people helped shape the field, from early work on the ARPANET and Operating Systems to the Big Data and AI innovations of today. The expertise is passed on to students which creates not only a highly talented labor pool, but also trains the next generation of innovators.

Considering this concentration of talent, I think it's no surprise that the Bay Area is a hub for innovation, and the impressive list of companies founded by Berkeley [1] and Stanford [2] alumni is a testament to this. The concentration of talent is the environment that attracts funding and VCs, and will ensure that the Bay Area will remain the place to be in tech.

And Seattle, your "perfect counterfactual", has University of Washington, another state-funded top institution.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_founded_by_U... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_founded_by_S...

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#816
post #715
post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And SF wrt cars only to some degree. I know a couple who decamped to SF and sold their cars when their kids got older. They do indeed live without owning cars. They also use Ubers, ZipCars, and regular rental all the time. I think a lot depends on what you're used to. I think a lot of folks accept the limited mobility they knew through school when they graduate. It becomes less acceptable as they get older. Many exce…

>They do indeed live without owning cars. They also use Ubers, ZipCars, and regular rental all the time. Is there that much of a difference between owning a car and renting a car or using Zip or having a chauffer (Lyft, Uber, taxis) tote you around? I'd get rid of my car too if I could afford to have Uber haul me everywhere.

> Is there that much of a difference between owning a car and renting a car or using Zip

The cost of owning a car in California including maintenance, fuel, parking, registration, smog check, etc. can be upwards of $10K per year. At least it was for me when I owned a car.

I walk most places and use car share or rent as necessary. I do not spend $10K per year on car share and rentals.

Literally, YMMV.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only by some San Franciscans who've been sniffing their own farts for too long. Everyone else thinks that The Bay is culturually homogenous.

It’s pretty dangerous to go against the culture these days. I’ve been singled out for trying to stay out of PC culture. Backed into a coroner of either actively agree with everything PC or “consequences”.

It's okay, most of them don't walk the walk. They're all about it right up to the point that you suggest that poor people deserve decent jobs with a decent commute. Then they go straight to frothing at the mouth and incoherent shouting.

What I'm saying is turn it around on them.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#818
post #715
post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And SF wrt cars only to some degree. I know a couple who decamped to SF and sold their cars when their kids got older. They do indeed live without owning cars. They also use Ubers, ZipCars, and regular rental all the time. I think a lot depends on what you're used to. I think a lot of folks accept the limited mobility they knew through school when they graduate. It becomes less acceptable as they get older. Many exce…

>They do indeed live without owning cars. They also use Ubers, ZipCars, and regular rental all the time. Is there that much of a difference between owning a car and renting a car or using Zip or having a chauffer (Lyft, Uber, taxis) tote you around? I'd get rid of my car too if I could afford to have Uber haul me everywhere.

>Is there that much of a difference between owning a car and renting a car or using Zip or having a chauffer (Lyft, Uber, taxis) tote you around? I'd get rid of my car too if I could afford to have Uber haul me everywhere.

It's a difference in frequency of use. In Seattle, a lot of my friends don't have cars, but use Rideshare/rentals when they need it. If you are using it a couple times a week, pretty easy to stay under the cost of car ownership when you factor in insurance/parking/maintenance etc.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And rent is sky-high, tax is insane, homeless with needles are everywhere, the city is one of the dirtiest in the country, and bleeding-heart citizens have passed propositions increasing crime and tying the hands of police. If there’s one thing I remember about the BART it’s the overwhelming noise and the constant smell of urine. The public transport situation is archaic and pales in comparison to other cities. You c…

Yeah I don't get it when people say SF is "walkable". No, Toronto is walkable. It's flat, dense, everything is close by, and clean. I'd be content to walk 45-50 mins to get somewhere. In SF, I dread having to walk, bike or take public transit anywhere. It's unpleasant, unsafe, smells horrible and there's rampant petty crime. And not just one district, it's like that in most of the areas you need to go to

SF is walkable because its tiny, yet each area feels very different because of the elevation changing your scenery in every nook. Ive been walking around the city for the past months now daily, and have not once encountered something unpleasant, unsafe, or smelly.

Now of course I avoid the tenderloin etc. area, but thats how its designed currently. All the homeless are in one place.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#820
post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how to respond but no their success comes from being in Silicon Valley at the right time and developing relationships within this ecosystem. So no I disagree that if Rabois was somehow not in Silicon Valley that he’d be just as successful and wealthy as he is now. And I’m speaking about his investments. Cutting a check is not “hard work”. You could argue Musk is different because he’s actually the CEO of…

Why is Silicon Valley where it is other than accident of history? The US government could have made military investments elsewhere and Fairchild Semiconductor would have just as easily been in another state. California and the SF Bay Area doesn't get credit for that. Heck, Silicon Valley was a bunch of fruit orchards for decades. Could have been a different set of fruit orchards in a different state. Had Fairchild be…

The US federal government makes tons of military investments all over the country - I worked for one of them for years and it was not in CA. There was something specific about Silicon Valley. I think Stanford has a lot to do with it personally.
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