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Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

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191–200 of 201 posts

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#191
post #71

I have seen so many articles on HN in front page about M1 over the past few weeks. Like a curious child I read all of them because somewhere in me I want to believe there exists a possibility of a giant leap for Desktop/Laptop. Having tried it myself, I should say this is going to be remembered just like the iPhone in 2007.

I don't think it will be remembered like the iPhone. Probably more like the original Macbook Air. The original Air created the class of ultrabooks which made the bulky Windows laptops at the time obsolete for average users. The new M1 Air has created a class of laptops with ultrabook bodies, but remains cool to the touch under load without sacrificing much in performance and having 16+ hours of battery life. Like the…

Apple marketing again!

I had a Sharp Muramasa MM10 years before that!

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#192
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lesson for all of us to not leap to conclusion. In the case of the Apple iPhone I didn't see it and only boarded the train by iPhone 4 (and honestly, I think it was about the right time). In the case of M1 I _did_ expect a revolution and frankly one I had been waiting for for decades (the true cost of x86 is finally exposed). I can't wait to see if Apple can keep up the momentum.

> the true cost of x86 is finally exposed They've reinvented x86 at least twice: microcode and then x86_64. I wouldn't bury x86 yet. Plus a good chunk of the M1 computing prowess is not even the CPU, it's the additional hardware such as the neural engine cores and such. This is something you could put next to a Sparc core, it's not ARM specific.

There is an fundamental complexity in the semantics of x86_64 instructions that makes them expensive to implement. I worked for Transmeta and am at another microprocessor company today so I do have 1st hand experience.

There are other things in M1 that helps make M1-based systems fast. I'm not talking about that. I'm exclusively referring to pure-core performance. It is true that the latency improvement and high-bandwidth of the nearby DRAM does help here, but it is far from the major factor.

FWIW, there's no evidence that TSMC's N5 node is the major factor, beyond letting Apple spend a lot of transistors.

Intel/AMD have so far been able to overcome the overhead with lots transistors and power, afforded by leading edge nodes. Apple is now at the same playing field and especially the power efficiency difference is obvious.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morehead isn't asking us to take his word for it. He used the device for a few days and shared his review as a counterpoint explicitly intended to balance against the pro-M1 hype. I thought it was a pretty nice assessment because Morehead focused on product usability instead of raw benchmarks, and I used his review as part of the process of informing my recent decision to buy an Intel MBP13 rather than an M1 model. I…

If you just bought a new Intel MBP then you got a horrible deal by comparison. I also didn't say the review was nonfactual, just that it contains within it an inaccurate framing and conflation of M1 as a processor and the overall product. It's worth noting though that many others' experiences with it, and Rosetta 2 specifically, were quite different than Moorhead's, so unless you're using the specific set of software…

They got a horrible deal unless they need more than 16 GB of RAM, more than two USB-C ports, Docker support, dual-boot with Windows, etc.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#194

For a counter argument, I don't think M1 is going to disrupt anything. Its a great performer for sure, but its locked to a proprietary and closed ecosystem controlled by a single entity. Its a new direction for Apple in their laptop architecture, and a solid first step, but the raw performance is not up to the fastest from AMD and Intel, and it lacks the ability to upgrade any of its components. I get it, its a lapto…

For the price point, I don't know of any other laptop that can compete with my M1 MBP 13 on battery & performance & temps and sleekness of form factor. M1 got me all of these things in one package, and it is just the FIRST attempt by Apple at making their own laptop chips. When the next one comes out, probably when they release their refreshed 16" machine, it'll continue to convert people who are looking for great pe…

For the price point is key, because many Windows and ChromeOS machines are sold at lower prices than Apple's cheapest machine.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Benchmarks show that the M1 has better performance in only a few areas, and underperforms in others, and that's with Apple controlling literally every aspect of the hardware and software stack. It's great for an ARM system for a vertically oriented company, but it isn't sufficiently performative to be a significant threat to the competition. And that's before you consider all the non-technical crap Apple has thrown a…

And of course, the big issue is that in order to use the M1 you must switch your entire stack to Apple. Not necessarily; the ARM version of Windows 10 is already running on the M1: https://hothardware.com/news/apple-silicon-m1-mac-windows-10...

Your link says otherwise. These would make it completely unusable... I'm not sure what they were even testing...

> First of all, there is no video or sound driver, so we were stuck with a maximum resolution of 1024 x 768. The network drivers apparently don't totally register with Windows

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#196
post #96

The problem of Microsoft's failed attempt could be resumed in few points - They failed to provide a decent ecosystem - They wanted to carry on decades of legacy bits - They failed to provide fast hardware - All that resulted in a shy attempt with poor performance Apple didn't have all these issues, because it is in their culture, to provide software that works, without much bloat and with great hardware Them forbiddi…

> Apple didn't have all these issues, because it is in their culture, to provide software that works, without much bloat and with great hardware It's funny you write this when the linked article specifically calls out Apple's software for a few "warts" and even agrees with Moorhead's and Gruber's take that the software is not yet fully baked.

Nothing is perfect, of course!

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exception doesn’t prove the rule.

It's not the exception, it's the rule. These guys didn't choose to switch away from Mac because they wanted to complicate their lives and have to learn a new OS; they did so because the switchover was industry-wide and and they'd already made the switch at their previous jobs. The studios got burned by Apple's lack of support for a decade, combined with the Mac's excessive costs and switched to nix and Windows (prima…

Maya, 3DS, Premiere, etc., and running these on Windows is a quarter of the cost, or less, of running the same software on Mac.

I'd love to see a study on this; the total cost of ownership has always been far less for the Mac than Windows, especially when you factor in the amount of support Windows requires compared to the Mac.

Casual googling confirms this:

https://www.jamf.com/blog/total-cost-of-ownership-mac-versus...

https://www.endpointprotector.com/blog/why-macs-have-a-lower...

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3452847/ibm-mac-users-...

An M1 Mac mini starts at $699, so there's no excessive cost. As usual, Adobe doesn't have it apps ready for Apple's latest and greatest… but other vendors are on the case and it'll be just a matter of time before all major video apps are running natively on the M1.

Of course, FinalCut Pro (and the rest of Apple's suite) is good to go; DaVinci Resolve (editing 4k, 6k and 8k RAW video) is also looking pretty great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxH3RabNWfE

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the vast majority of people will be able to do exactly what they want on it.

"Nobody cares about freedom of speech because the vast majority will be able to speak what they want anyway".

Yeah, that’s true also.

Have you not noticed that essentially everyone is pro-censorship nowadays? As long as it’s their preferred brand of censorship, of course.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the exception, it's the rule. These guys didn't choose to switch away from Mac because they wanted to complicate their lives and have to learn a new OS; they did so because the switchover was industry-wide and and they'd already made the switch at their previous jobs. The studios got burned by Apple's lack of support for a decade, combined with the Mac's excessive costs and switched to nix and Windows (prima…

Maya, 3DS, Premiere, etc., and running these on Windows is a quarter of the cost, or less, of running the same software on Mac. I'd love to see a study on this; the total cost of ownership has always been far less for the Mac than Windows, especially when you factor in the amount of support Windows requires compared to the Mac. Casual googling confirms this: https://www.jamf.com/blog/total-cost-of-ownership-mac-versu…

I'd love to see a study on this; the total cost of ownership has always been far less for the Mac than Windows, especially when you factor in the amount of support Windows requires compared to the Mac.

This is simply not true, based on real-world experience. (Again, I did R&D tax credits for 4 years for a media company; I had line-item access to expenses and the reasons for every expense.) Macs cost more than Windows PCs of the same or better performance, are more expensive to replace (since usually the entire device must be replaced), and generally cannot be upgraded. Moreover, the fact that Macs may last years longer is irrelevant to a business, since the "useful life" for computer equipment for financial purposes and actual use is 5 years or less (emphasis on the "or less"; we replaced machines at least every other year with newer equipment).

An M1 Mac mini starts at $699, so there's no excessive cost.

So what? An M1 Mac mini can't run any of the software that you would be running in a video production environment, let alone one requiring real-time editing capabilities for a live broadcast.

Of course, FinalCut Pro (and the rest of Apple's suite) is good to go; DaVinci Resolve (editing 4k, 6k and 8k RAW video) is also looking pretty great:

Final Cut Pro has not been industry standard since before I started at my old job. Apple did a great job of screwing the pooch on that one. As for DaVinci Resolve, it runs even better on Windows, especially since you can put as much RAM as you want, and multiple GPUs, and whatever cooling system you want, and make the machine literally run laps around the top-of-the-line Mac.

Re: Apple Silicon M1 Disruption

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Benchmarks show that the M1 has better performance in only a few areas, and underperforms in others, and that's with Apple controlling literally every aspect of the hardware and software stack. I haven't seen a review where it has underperformed any other comparable device. I've seen a lot of talk about how the Threadripper from AMD is faster… duh. Of course a 32- or 64-core processor that costs 2x-3x than a Mac mini…

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-teste... In some of the benchmarks, the 15W Ryzen 7 4800U outperforms the Apple Silicon M1. There, now you have seen a review where the M1 underperformed a comparable device. (This is not to take away from the fact that the M1 is impressive, and is incredibly efficient, and much better for battery life. It's just a reminder that there are actual, real, worthwhile…

Also, a just-published database of gaming performance on the M1s confirms that the M1 is not the revolutionary chip that Apple claims it to be once you run it in uncontrolled (aka real-world) use cases.

The M1 struggles to run 4-year old games that modern AMD and Intel chips breeze through. While the M1 appears to have good burst capabilities, its ability to handle extended processing loads for anything that isn't hardcoded into the chip (aka, anything other than video processing) is woefully deficient. Whether that's a function of the CPU design, or poor cooling, or both, is not yet clear.

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