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Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

businessinsider.com

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Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#581

Post by NonEUCitizen »

dustingetz wrote: post #509
sandworm101 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> and still come out ahead financially. Ya. Earning a SF wage but living elsewhere is great. But there is a flip side to this coin. As employees realize they can work from home, employers also realize they can have employees work from home. They will soon realize they don't need to pay SF wages. Those who convert their in-office jobs into work-from-home are a covid oddity. Those who will be hired in the future on th…

.

There are many immigrants in US getting paid US wages who graduated from non-US colleges. Companies in other countries need to start paying US wages and stop exploiting developers.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#582

Post by nus07 »

rpearl wrote: post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

I agree on almost all of your points with a few caveats. - Cars : The Bay Area is very walkable but that’s mainly SF. The tech burbs of Palo Alto , Menlo Park are not super walkable and you are relying on the BART and other public transport . But Covid has destroyed public transport and cuts in funding threaten them further.

LGBT : This is not really the 80s and 90s . Most big cities from DC, Atlanta, Austin ,Chicago, Phoenix, Miami have strong LGBT presence . And a lot of racial heterogeneity there too.

Art and Culture: Almost all artists that I met in Austin, Chicago , Miami , Portland , Asheville left the Bay Area . They were priced out by tech . Everything is tech in the Bay Area . Even artists have to align or suck up to tech .

High quality food: Yes, again a lot of other cities are replicating that.

The Bay Area is truly great and very beautiful . But I cannot constantly hustle at 45 while raising 2 kids , pay a million dollars for a shack . I am sort of tired of constantly competing and hustling . I am tired of being told that we are counter culture since we are not Wall Street bro’s but I need a million dollars for a 1950s 2 bedroom house .

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#583

Post by strangus »

arthurjj wrote: post #564
rpearl wrote: post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

> Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Is this true? I've only visited the bay for a total of 15 days but only SF and parts of Oakland seemed walkable.

I spent almost 2 decades biking in SF. It's the best way to get around.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#584

Post by victorronin »

FpUser wrote: post #376
x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if people don't care what managers think why would the owners bother having them? It seems shortsighted to think that management won't have a say, explicitly or implicitly, in guiding these orgs back to an office based workspace.

Managers are nothing but employees. Same as developers and other groups. The owners might consider their opinions along with the opinions of the other groups. There is nothing special about managers. And it is the owners who decide how and what to spend their money on. Not the managers. >"..won't have a say, explicitly or implicitly..." Nice try. What are you implying under "implicitely"? If this is what I think it i…

"There is nothing special about managers."

Managers are very often (especially in a bigger organization) is the only channel how information flows to owners.

As a result, managers can paint very different picture of the same situation (as an example, that people working remotely from home are less productive).

May be in some abstract world, "managers are just employees and there is nothing special". In reality they wield a lot of power to sway company in one or another direction.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#585

Post by alentist »

vkou wrote: post #394
alentist wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Bay Area > libertarian paradise What a strange notion. San Francisco has some of the most paternalistic laws in the US, courtesy of its board of supervisors. Some of them even wanted to ban corporate cafeterias, an issue which returned last year: https://sfist.com/2019/07/22/watered-down-version-of-sfs-tec... To pin the blame for these problems on libertarians , of all people, is the height of absurdity: https:…

1. The SFBA does not begin and end with San Francisco. You're free to pick and choose among its many, many neighbouring municipalities, none of which happen to be governed by the San Francisco city council . 2. These are fantastic examples of measures that at worst, mildly inconvenience the most affluent members of its society, and at best are harmless social signaling of issues that don't matter. It speaks more abou…

1. Many of the links I shared are about the Bay Area as a whole.

2. Here's the definition of zoning:

> Zoning is a method of urban planning in which a municipality or other tier of government divides land into areas called zones, each of which has a set of regulations for new development that differs from other zones.

Here's the definition of libertarianism:

> Libertarianism is a political philosophy and movement that upholds liberty as a core principle Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and political freedom, emphasizing free association, freedom of choice, individualism and voluntary association.

In what way is government dictating that you can't build more housing on your property "libertarian"? You're pulling some desperate mental gymnastics.

> As for zoning laws, they are absolutely libertarian, in the sense that the people who have made it are using them to pull the ladder up behind them.

Literal nonsense. That's not what "libertarian" means.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#586

Post by economusty »

rpearl wrote: post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

Not true, your seeing what you want to see.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#588

Post by jimbokun »

foolfoolz wrote: post #372
sjg007 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it, software is eating the world, there aren't enough engineers and we see productivity gains like the cloud where you can basically run a global scale business with just a handful of people. We will probably see more of those companies than less.

when the work is remote we don’t need remote-california to save 10% on wages. we will go to remote-ukraine or estonia and hire twice as many engineers

You are really late to this party, this has been happening since the late 90s.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#589

Post by tesseract »

arthurjj wrote: post #564
rpearl wrote: post #555

Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Really, even compared to other "walkable" cities beyond a select few, similarly expensive places. Nobody really brings up that the bay area has better LGBT and other minority protections than anywhere in the US, either. Every time someone mentions cheap midwest cities I have to pull up https://crossingenres.com/…

> Nobody really brings up that the bay area is one of few places in the US where you can live without a car. Is this true? I've only visited the bay for a total of 15 days but only SF and parts of Oakland seemed walkable.

There are suburban "downtowns"/shopping districts near many BART and Caltrain stops where it's quite possible to commute and do most everyday errands on foot/bike/transit. Possibly even easier than a lot of the southwestern half of SF proper. (Having no access to a car at all - through friends or a willingness to use Lyft/Uber - does make some things harder). The older and higher-density suburbs tend to be better for this: for instance downtown San Mateo, Redwood City, Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, Berkeley, Pleasanton. You pay for the privilege though, and I'm not sure that it's _that_ unique nationally?

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#590

Post by pm90 »

I think this has been happening for a while now. Even if the pace might be accelerated, until we get alternate cities that develop a startup ecosystem, you will simply never have the level of innovation that comes out of SF (and to a lesser extent NYC).
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