Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#321

Post by 01100011 » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:58 PM UTC

Eh, I'd love to leave but I think, as an aging engineer(45) my prospects are better if I stay. Sure, if I was a top technical contributor I'd leave in a second, but I'm not. I need to be close to HQ for now until I receive a strong signal from management indicating otherwise.

I did recently evaluate moving to our Redmond office so that I can better care for my aging mother in my old hometown. Then I saw that houses nearby are even more expensive than the bay area. Nuts. Finding a rental house that can accomodate my mom and family in the south bay will not be easy though.

Slightly unrelated, I'm excited to see if satellite internet will open up even more remote areas of the country to remote developers. It would be nice to setup a coding cabin in the backwoods somewhere far from the city, where I can go part-time to escape the din.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#322

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:58 PM UTC

rmk wrote: post #308

akhilcacharya wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but my experience is that most parents say private schools do a better job This sounds more like classism to me.

It is not. Remember that public schools (they are essentially free for the parents) are competing with private schools that are charging 20k+ per year per pupil. Most people who have to work for a living will not shell out 20k+ or (50-60k if there are siblings involved) simply because they are classist: they see clear advantages in private schools. This year, most bay area public schools are online. Many private scho…

> Most people who have to work for a living will not shell out 20k+ or (50-60k if there are siblings involved) simply because they are classist: they see clear advantages in private schools.

Just because they see it doesn't mean it's actually there. Private schools attract the students that would do better in any environment (because of both socioeconomic class factors and involved parents making non-default choices), and measures of student performance reflect this. There's very little evidence that they do anything to actually improve outcomes, but what most people see (aside from marketing, which private schools put plenty of money into as well) is statistics that show correlation without controlling for other variables, from which it is easy to make incorrect inferences about causation.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#323

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 6:58 PM UTC

setpatchaddress wrote: post #302

pvarangot wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think SVs appeal is that you can leave in a quiet suburb close to a lot of easily accessible nature, while still having Amazon 2-day shipping, ridesharing, Uber Eats, and luxury retail. There's not many places in the US like this. Europe has a lot but there's not much tech jobs in them. You are also close to SF if you like the madness of the city every once in a while. Other suburby places with nature easily access…

The Bay Area isn't especially nice in this regard, for one reason:it is crowded . you won't ever get a moment of peace in all of that nature unless you get lucky. For variety, I actually think the LA area as a whole is better. But it has the same problem.

[deleted]

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#324

Post by x86_64Ubuntu » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

FpUser wrote: post #180

birdyrooster wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wfh will not stick. Managers hate it. If you are really talented you can work anywhere for whatever price you want, however most people are not like that and can only really function meeting often in person.

>"Managers hate it" Who ever cares what managers think. It is the owners who matter as they're the ones paying bills. >"however most people are not like that and can only really function meeting often in person" Well, when your ability to make a living is at stake your ability to function independent of location might suddenly improve.

So if people don't care what managers think why would the owners bother having them? It seems shortsighted to think that management won't have a say, explicitly or implicitly, in guiding these orgs back to an office based workspace.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#325

Post by throwaway0a5e » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

camjohnson26 wrote: post #112

scottlocklin wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always answer: fuck off; we're full. California, particularly Bay Area California is so ridiculously dysfunctional, the last thing any region needs is their refugees, who will bring with them the problems they're fleeing. Austin for example. Used to be a great place.

That’s a ridiculous take. There’s a lot of technical talent trapped in the Bay Area and I welcome it in my region. Treating every resident as if they agree with the repressive SF politics is over generalizing. And who’s full? The main thing the flyover states need is more people.

You're crazy if you don't understand why a large portion of the population doesn't look at the bay area and say "the last people I want are the people who created that situation".

I think it's a lot more nuanced than that but the sentiment is at the very least understandable.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#326

Post by scottlocklin » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #312

scottlocklin wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never lived in Austin. I never will: too many Californians have ruined the place; now they've got skyrocketing housing prices, traffic, homeless tent cities with rivers of human feces and the general high quality of life one can find in other paradisical California shit holes. No doubt they'll find a way to jack the taxes up if enough move to Texas. Very typical of a Palo Alto resident to think the only proble…

> the tax rate makes France look reasonable, France has taxes around 45% of GDP, California has (including all levels, including federal) around 30%, the US as a whole (again, counting all levels) is around 25%. California is one of the higher overall tax jurisdictions in the US, but unless your argument is that the US as a whole has unreasonably low taxes, I don't get how you can say California makes France look rea…

You obviously don't live in California, don't make enough money to pay taxes, or are just being cussed. The US top end tax rate is 37%, plus California is .... what? 13? You're already up to giving away half of what you make in California. Meanwhile you have to pay taxes on physical property like your house, and your house is valued at 7 figures if you live in the Bay Area. Finally, there was a VAT the last time I lived there. Meaning pretty much everything you buy with your money is also taxed. So yeah. France. Except the wine and everything else is shittier and costs more in California. France also has a functioning social welfare and medical system, and somehow manages to keep the electricity on and the air breathable. Pretty sure the murder rate in France, terrorism and everything, is significantly lower as well.

Oh yeah: completely ridiculous criminal things like this basically don't happen as often in France:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SFPDTenderloin/status/13342450627...

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#327

Post by franklampard » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

ylhert wrote: post #33

Tech in SFBA reminds me of the Resource curse ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse ). SFBA did nothing special to attract the wealth of technology companies, they effectively got lucky with Shockley/Fairchild/Traitorous 8 and the boom in technology that followed. It seems the local gov't have squandered an opportunity to truly capitalize on the gift they were given, and perhaps even done their best to jeopa…

What about great weather and food

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#328

Post by nrmitchi » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:01 PM UTC

throwaway45349 wrote: post #273

nrmitchi wrote: post #127

Note that I have no evidence to support this hypothesis, and I would love if someone would prove me wrong, but I suspect the following: - The "Tech Elite" who are leaving are, by definition, the ones who have the financial freedom to go pretty much wherever they want. Anyone mentioned in this article could buy a house in Miami/Austin/Denver without worrying about any transaction costs if they turn around and sell it…

What's wrong with going to restaurants and public events? If people don't want to be locked down, there's not much you can do about that.

I did not state one way or the other in my comment about whether it was right or wrong, and frankly my opinion on that topic is not of importance to my point here.

I stated that it seems clear that these people are moving way from temporary restrictions (by relocating to places that do not have the same restrictions), and that there is no guarantee that any of these will be 'permanent' moves after those restrictions are no longer applicable.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#329

Post by qppo » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

gedy wrote: post #19

qppo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not municipalities but the state's labor laws are highly conducive to the tech culture and don't exist most places in the country. There's not much money for the startup crop that feeds big tech outside the Bay Area. It's all on Sand Hill Road. I can only speak for myself but I'll never live in a red state again. Not even Texas, it's not worth it. Even where I grew up (the purple midwest) is too socially conservative…

Unless you are a political junky reading news all day - what practically speaking is so intolerable about living there or your neighbors?

Well right now it's personal safety as another comment mentioned. Long term it's because I don't want my kids to grow up around the same people I did.

Intolerable is an ironic word because my personal choices cut right to the paradox of tolerance.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#330

Post by jaredtn » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #274

The tech industry has beaten the Bay Area to within inches of its life. The pandemic may have saved it. Political mismanagement probably deserves most of the blame, because how else do you explain a historically significant economic boom reducing the quality of life for a highly developed region? I tried for many years to view the tech boom optimistically, but I as wrong.

You said it youself: political mismanagement. Make it illegal to build apartment buildings, make it impossible to build good public transit. Ban plastic straws. Refuse to prosecute criminals. Close the safe outdoor parks. Force public servants to pay into a bloated pension system. That's how you reduce the quality of life.