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Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

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Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#141

Post by pbuzbee »

rmk wrote: post #74

The major obstacle to living in SV is the insane cost of homeownership that puts the (pretty commonplace) aspiration of living in one's own home with a nice yard out of reach of all but the richest (even being in the top 5% of incomes in the nation is no guarantee of being able to own a house in Palo Alto, for example.) With the recent passing of Prop 19, things get even worse: people who are looking to inherit homes…

The cost of homeownership is a huge factor for me.

When I started working in 2014, I figured I would need to save around $150k for a down payment because the median home price in Santa Clara county was around $800k. Now the median price is around $1.4M [1], so I'd need around $250k.

The growth in home prices has roughly matched my ability to save for a home, so almost seven years later I'm not any closer than I was in 2014.

I feel like my options are (A) live in an apartment forever, (B) hellish commute, or (C) leave. With starting a family on the horizon, Option C looks better every day.

[1] https://www.bayareamarketreports.com/trend/santa-clara-home-...

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#142

Post by Ar-Curunir »

ulfw wrote: post #31
andreilys wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Diego and Los Angeles offer much better weather.

Especially on the coast. 100% agree. I've had months and months of continuous rain in the Bay, something I never witnessed when living down South. It's cheaper too. Much much much MUCH more diverse. And food's better as is the landscape.

... have you been to the Bay Area in the last 8 years? I wish we had even a week of continuous rain.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#143

Post by CalChris »

trhway wrote: post #125
ylhert wrote: post #33

Tech in SFBA reminds me of the Resource curse ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse ). SFBA did nothing special to attract the wealth of technology companies, they effectively got lucky with Shockley/Fairchild/Traitorous 8 and the boom in technology that followed. It seems the local gov't have squandered an opportunity to truly capitalize on the gift they were given, and perhaps even done their best to jeopa…

don't forget non-competes and moonlighting. As the rest the world has proven there is [comparatively] no innovation and startups without these two. The things like for example Traitorous 8 can never happen. Wrt. people leaving because of WFH - anecdotally people leave for other place where there are campuses of their companies. That suggests that there is not much trust in WFH. Once WFH subsides many of those people…

For example, Wozniak was moonlighting from his HP job when he worked with Jobs at Atari.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#144

Post by jamesmehaffey »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #50
jamesmehaffey wrote: post #43

Weather aside, I really enjoyed living in Amsterdam. It is a crowded and rather small city, but it is a big center for banking and tech. Europe doesn’t really do the sprawling mega cities like the US does, though everything is very well connected. Still though, that headline is a bit overblown.

Amsterdam is a pretty expensive city(for Europe, I know it's cheap compared to Sf but so is everything else out there). Wow are the median tech salaries there?

I suppose the salaries are somewhat comparable if perhaps a little lower, however the cost of living is much less in general compared to SF. The most important thing is that the beer is inexpensive, and the fact that you can spend every weekend in a different city for next to nothing more than makes up for the discrepancy.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#145

Post by sandworm101 »

ericmay wrote: post #129
sandworm101 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> and still come out ahead financially. Ya. Earning a SF wage but living elsewhere is great. But there is a flip side to this coin. As employees realize they can work from home, employers also realize they can have employees work from home. They will soon realize they don't need to pay SF wages. Those who convert their in-office jobs into work-from-home are a covid oddity. Those who will be hired in the future on th…

I agree, mostly. The bottom is still decently high even in Midwest cities. But if you’re making $140,000 + RSU/Bonus/Etc., someone from somewhere else will do that job remotely for $100,000 easy. But I would characterize this as a wealth distribution, and overall net positive for the country. People who don’t have the opportunities to work at the top companies in the Bay Area or NYC or Boston now have better access.…

>> wealth distribution

At the moment that may be true but increasing the pool of potential labor rarely results in wealth distribution. I think companies will pay less. That money won't go to other hires as tech companies limit hiring for other reasons than money. The money will go to bottom lines, to stockholders: the opposite of wealth distribution.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#146

Post by apta »

scottlocklin wrote: post #130
camjohnson26 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a ridiculous take. There’s a lot of technical talent trapped in the Bay Area and I welcome it in my region. Treating every resident as if they agree with the repressive SF politics is over generalizing. And who’s full? The main thing the flyover states need is more people.

That's a very rational take: all you need do is step in a puddle of human feces in Austin to understand why. Wasn't there even 5 years ago, until the Californians brought their unique brand of urban development there. The flyover states may need more people: nobody needs Bay Area people bringing their "enlightened" ways with them. Tech literate, rich or not. You guys made your paradise - live in it.

Don't forget that they bring their voting policies with them (e.g. voting for more taxes).

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#147

Post by inerte »

solumos wrote: post #30
coldtea wrote: post #2

> threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together. Did SV municipalities do anything else to deserve it? There are better places, with more rental space, more resources, better weather, and so on, plus WFH is here to stay...

I'd say the jury's still out on WFH. Once more companies put their cost-of-living adjustments in place, I think a lot of employees will change their minds. Additionally, I think many companies won't go "fully remote" - a lot of them will move to a "hybrid" model (e.g. 3 days in-office per week).

Something I realized is that I am not seeing Managers, Directors, and VPs moving.

Could be age / career related - VPs of big companies are usually experienced professionals, so they have strong(er) roots in the Bay Area, with kids in school.

But the number of management moving out is ZERO - at least anecdotally. Once we're allowed to go back to the office and they all go, how long until tech leads and architects also follow? Then "interns and junior employees should be at the office so it's easier to mentor", and then remote becomes something mid-level and seniors-who-plateaued or a CLM position. Which is fine, if you know the tradeoffs...

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#148

Post by akhilcacharya »

rmk wrote: post #110
akhilcacharya wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> poor public schools in many areas What exactly makes them so bad?

I don't know exactly, but my experience is that most parents say private schools do a better job (teachers are better engaged and aren't checked out, apathetic pencil pushers). In the areas with good school districts (and there are a handful of those), things swing to another extreme: too much pressure, like Singapore-style schools, which causes children to buckle under the pressure later in their lives.

> but my experience is that most parents say private schools do a better job

This sounds more like classism to me.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#149

Post by twalla »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #112
scottlocklin wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always answer: fuck off; we're full. California, particularly Bay Area California is so ridiculously dysfunctional, the last thing any region needs is their refugees, who will bring with them the problems they're fleeing. Austin for example. Used to be a great place.

That’s a ridiculous take. There’s a lot of technical talent trapped in the Bay Area and I welcome it in my region. Treating every resident as if they agree with the repressive SF politics is over generalizing. And who’s full? The main thing the flyover states need is more people.

I don't think most people leaving the bay area are headed to some remote cabin in Montana or some sleepy town in the midwest - they're just moving to cheaper (comparatively) cities. Anyone pulling up roots with a bay area salary or a home in CA is going to have a huge cash advantage against anyone in the local market just about wherever they move.

On a personal note, it's been tons of fun competing with the multiple bids, sight unseen, over asking on 600-700k+ century old homes in need of another 100k worth of rehab.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#150

Post by beamatronic »

jjeaff wrote: post #46
fumar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The myth is from people that moved to California from other states. I moved from the the midwest to Southern California. I can't see myself going back to harsh winters and extreme summers. My overall well being has increased and the sunny days helpf with consistent mood levels. This is coming from someone who loved the four seasons and claimed they were required. I realized that humans populate most climates in the w…

Same here. I like the "idea" of four seasons. But after living in socal, I discovered I really only need a few days a year of the cold wintery weather. And then I'm over it. I get that from travel. Not to mention how summers are so much hotter in the Midwest and south. Mid 70s and sunny is hard to beat. It's like an eternal spring.

There is a place where you can have seasons, yet they are mild. And there is a reasonable cost of living, if you so choose. And it has public transportation, which is not ideal but better that many other US cities. And it has a huge number of software jobs, an educated populace, and culture. Washington, DC
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