Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

businessinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 1001 posts

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#461

Post by foxtr0t »

How many times can SV, SF, the Bay Area, California die? How many of these articles will be written? How many 400+ comment meltdown threads about the end of Silicon Valley will we see?

Our economy is cyclical, so is the technology industry, and so is the technology industry within the Bay Area. It seems to me a large cohort of the HN community has reached an age where they'd typically move to suburbs, "back home", or just to cheaper areas to raise a family. This was hastened by COVID, and yet, the next cohort of new grads is right around the corner, just like it is every year. Is the calculus about where to live different? Slightly, now you pick from 10 metros instead of 5. Are people going to be full time remote? Yes. Can they live anywhere? Certainly. Will new grads be better of starting out in an office just like most people here did? Certainly yes.

Can we recognize for a moment that the collective value of the technology sector located along the West Coast is probably north of $10T? If anything, the tech industry is annexing new metros, not moving to them, as tech continues to eat the world.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#462

Post by gabereiser »

ericmay wrote: post #240
arcturus17 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much equity would you need to hold to compensate for a 30-40% decrease in wages?

Who is experiencing the decrease in wages? For many Americans the distribution of these jobs to other locations would result in an increase in wages. Not to mention, the top companies would still hire top talent in a competitive market.

Exactly. This argument that cheaper workforce is out in the sticks, waiting for “remote work” is a lie corporate America has told to keep people in the office.

The truth is, no matter where you are, talent knows what talent is worth. We price accordingly and in the end the market is stable at a certain price level.

We’ve been seeing this over the last decade in major US cities competing for SF-level talent. Tech is one of the highest paid professions. Remote or otherwise. To say companies will just go hire someone cheaper assumes they can find someone cheaper.

In the end I think the real winners are rural America (or Europe or where ever you live). Having a lifeblood of capital come back to small towns and the like will decentralize our cities, improve our quality of life, reinforce the need for infrastructure, and allow innovation to solve those problems.

Exciting times.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#463

Post by renewiltord »

coldtea wrote: post #297
renewiltord wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to describe to people who are both White and American. That's not because they're inherently incapable of understanding. It's just a problem you don't face as much so you don't understand it. It's like how for most of my life I barely understood the mitigating measures women take in many situations where I don't even notice the situation.

> It's hard to describe to people who are both White and American Many immigrants are even more religious and/or convervative than "White and American". Just of a different culture.

Sure, I'm certain it's hard to explain to other groups as well. "White and American" wasn't meant to be exhaustive.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#464

Post by ericd »

txsoftwaredev wrote: post #411
jmnicolas wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> employers also realize they can have employees work from home. I think it's even worse than that. Once they realize that you're working from home, why wouldn't they hire someone much cheaper abroad? I hope I'm wrong but I think in less than 5 years people will regret this WFH thing.

If this was an option they would have already outsourced the work.

It becomes a lot easier as an office becomes remote-first, and adopts the changes necessary to make that work well. There's no longer that barrier between the in-person and remote teams.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#465

Post by selimthegrim »

chucky_z wrote: post #452
mixmastamyk wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You train them, remember that? :D

This is legitimately what we're doing. We're bringing in really junior folks and spending years training/improving them. Unfortunately that doesn't help now . I thought it would be easier this year to hire due to COVID and layoffs, but it just hasn't been.

Did you post in Who’s Hiring? :)

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#466

Post by scarmig »

dougmwne wrote: post #410
scarmig wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) SF & Valley: Education levels of the people here. You can get that in a couple other places--DC, NYC, Boston--but not too many others. Relatedly, two easily accessible world class universities are in the Bay Area: Boston beats us here, but we beat NYC and DC. 2) SF & Valley: Diversity. Bay Area cities top the list of largest number of foreign born residents, with only LA and NYC being competitive. 3) SF & Valley:…

I have lived in both SF and DC and think a few of your points are maybe a bit unfair to the east coast. I found DC's public transit and walkability to be quite a bit better than SF. True, the weather is less perfect, and maybe I am resistant to humidity and mild cold, but I generally found it pleasant to be outside for 9 months of the year. DC absolutely had a lot of diversity, partially due to immigration, but also…

I've spent probably a month total in DC, so I don't fully know its charms. And it's certainly a city that I get the appeal of, and I wouldn't be opposed to moving there if circumstances brought me there. But some thoughts:

Walkability: for pros, DC is flatter and cleaner. The Metro is cleaner and more reliable than Muni. For cons, the city itself is a bit more spread out, and its hinterlands (e.g. Tysons or Silver Spring), although accessible via public transit, are much less walkable than San Francisco's hinterlands (e.g. Berkeley or Palo Alto). But the biggest issue is that D.C. is just not really walkable in either the depths of winter or the heights of summer (although evenings can be pretty pleasant, and you can actually enjoy an evening out on a patio). Maybe I'm a wimp with low tolerances, but that's six months of the year gone right there.

Diversity: SF is around 1/3 foreign born, while DC is like 1/6 or 1/8. Almost half of SF speaks a language other than English at home, while DC is more like a quarter. DC is diverse, just not as diverse as SF.

I agree with the rest of what you said.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#467

Post by dcolkitt »

munaf wrote: post #40

It's notable that a lot of people are moving, but I'd wait until at least early 2022 to make judgements about lasting impacts on SV. WFH might not stick widely, and some firms will pick a hybrid model (i.e. partial WFH) over going fully remote. Not to mention that few places can match all the benefits of SV, i.e. unenforceable non-competes, fantastic weather and surroundings, an educated and diverse population, cultu…

> Not to mention that few places can match all the benefits of SV

The counterpoint would be how many billionaires, besides those in the tech industry, choose to put down roots in the Bay Area? Not many at all. (The only real exceptions I can think of are Napa/Sonoma/Marin, not SV/SF proper.) We're talking about a class of people who are truly unconstrained in terms of location, so that should be pretty indicative of where local amenities really shine.

And it's pretty clear that New York, SoCal, and Southern Florida are the truly attractive locales in America. Many people choose to pay Manhattan, Beverly Hills or Palm Beach prices without a compelling economic draw to those areas. Virtually nobody chooses to pay SF prices just for the lifestyle, amenities and culture.

Without the draw of tech employment and investment, there's no way SV/SF can maintain its current level of economic prosperity.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#468

Post by TheCoelacanth »

gowld wrote: post #183
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Northern Virginia about an Hour from DC. The only two things you miss in VA on your list is "grittiness" which is a negative for me, and walkability, which you could get if you go closer to DC.

Climate is also missing, which is huge. VA has hot humid summers and freezing cold winters. SF spring/fall all year round.

As opposed to SF which has hot humid winters and freezing cold summers /s

Not sure SF's climate can be considered universally better. I think I would get sick of it never actually getting warm.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#469

Post by [deleted] »

foxtr0t wrote: post #461

How many times can SV, SF, the Bay Area, California die? How many of these articles will be written? How many 400+ comment meltdown threads about the end of Silicon Valley will we see? Our economy is cyclical, so is the technology industry, and so is the technology industry within the Bay Area. It seems to me a large cohort of the HN community has reached an age where they'd typically move to suburbs, "back home", or…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN