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Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

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Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#411

Post by txsoftwaredev »

jmnicolas wrote: post #397
sandworm101 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> and still come out ahead financially. Ya. Earning a SF wage but living elsewhere is great. But there is a flip side to this coin. As employees realize they can work from home, employers also realize they can have employees work from home. They will soon realize they don't need to pay SF wages. Those who convert their in-office jobs into work-from-home are a covid oddity. Those who will be hired in the future on th…

> employers also realize they can have employees work from home. I think it's even worse than that. Once they realize that you're working from home, why wouldn't they hire someone much cheaper abroad? I hope I'm wrong but I think in less than 5 years people will regret this WFH thing.

If this was an option they would have already outsourced the work.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#412

Post by ip26 »

gopalv wrote: post #224
birdyrooster wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve been trying to hire these people for ages locally and remotely and we still couldn’t find them so I have no idea where you think all the talent was hiding until covid 19.

> no idea where you think all the talent was hiding until covid 19 The talent isn't being converted from potential - as was recently said, "You can't be what you can't see". I was in Kansas City meeting people in Jan and it's pretty clear that there's a lot of talent hiding out there in downtown Missouri. The talent there tops out at SSE because there's no vertical space without jumping to management & two years down…

To clarify, you're saying that limited career growth opportunity at satellite sites is stunting the talent development at that locale?

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#413

Post by davidajackson »

Cd00d wrote: post #114
dekhn wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous. The Bay Area, specifically Stanford and Berkeley, contributed to the WWII tech research initiative and then afterwards, Terman made Stanford Research Park which led to Silicon Valley.

Yeah, I thought it was somewhat due to Stanford's handling of IP. The argument I heard was that if you're researching at Stanford and make a productizable discovery you can spin off a company no strings. I was at Cornell when I heard this, where any company built off on-campus research had to sign over 20% of the company up front. Makes those initial pitches to VC that much harder.

Might be different in upper levels, but this wasn't the case from my experience as an undergrad at Stanford. Wanted to mess around with programming drones for a prototype delivery system (I think in 2015), submitted my proposal for a 2k grant to buy a drone, but I dropped the idea when the committee that manages it said they would make decisions about IP. Maybe my proposal wasn't important enough to warrant an actual negotiation? I suspect that at upper levels of development/research this process is handled differently.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#414

Post by 8ytecoder »

dekhn wrote: post #67
ylhert wrote: post #33

Tech in SFBA reminds me of the Resource curse ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse ). SFBA did nothing special to attract the wealth of technology companies, they effectively got lucky with Shockley/Fairchild/Traitorous 8 and the boom in technology that followed. It seems the local gov't have squandered an opportunity to truly capitalize on the gift they were given, and perhaps even done their best to jeopa…

This is ridiculous. The Bay Area, specifically Stanford and Berkeley, contributed to the WWII tech research initiative and then afterwards, Terman made Stanford Research Park which led to Silicon Valley.

It's also the strong anti-non-compete of CA that allowed the flourishing and spread of technology and know-how.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#415

Post by some-guy »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #174
munaf wrote: post #40

It's notable that a lot of people are moving, but I'd wait until at least early 2022 to make judgements about lasting impacts on SV. WFH might not stick widely, and some firms will pick a hybrid model (i.e. partial WFH) over going fully remote. Not to mention that few places can match all the benefits of SV, i.e. unenforceable non-competes, fantastic weather and surroundings, an educated and diverse population, cultu…

I lived in SV for a decade and worked in SF for most of that. > WFH might not stick widely If the vast majority of workers demand it, then I don't think employers will have a choice here. Leaving now is a vote with your feet. > unenforceable non-competes Very few of my peers have ever cared about this in practice. I don't think this is remotely a major benefit compared to e.g. state taxes. > fantastic weather and sur…

> If the vast majority of workers demand [WFH]

I don't know what percentage of the workforce here has both family and enough personal connections to where leaving the area doesn't make sense, regardless of a WFH policy. It may be that they want a better commute but still want to stay in the area for the aforementioned reasons (I am one of these people).

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#416

Post by TheCoelacanth »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #174
munaf wrote: post #40

It's notable that a lot of people are moving, but I'd wait until at least early 2022 to make judgements about lasting impacts on SV. WFH might not stick widely, and some firms will pick a hybrid model (i.e. partial WFH) over going fully remote. Not to mention that few places can match all the benefits of SV, i.e. unenforceable non-competes, fantastic weather and surroundings, an educated and diverse population, cultu…

I lived in SV for a decade and worked in SF for most of that. > WFH might not stick widely If the vast majority of workers demand it, then I don't think employers will have a choice here. Leaving now is a vote with your feet. > unenforceable non-competes Very few of my peers have ever cared about this in practice. I don't think this is remotely a major benefit compared to e.g. state taxes. > fantastic weather and sur…

Workers don't care much about non-competes, but it matters a lot to people starting companies.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#417

Post by halfmatthalfcat »

jaredtn wrote: post #330
standardUser wrote: post #274

The tech industry has beaten the Bay Area to within inches of its life. The pandemic may have saved it. Political mismanagement probably deserves most of the blame, because how else do you explain a historically significant economic boom reducing the quality of life for a highly developed region? I tried for many years to view the tech boom optimistically, but I as wrong.

You said it youself: political mismanagement. Make it illegal to build apartment buildings, make it impossible to build good public transit. Ban plastic straws. Refuse to prosecute criminals. Close the safe outdoor parks. Force public servants to pay into a bloated pension system. That's how you reduce the quality of life.

Lol ban plastic straws.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#418

Post by ericd »

bendbro wrote: post #255
ericmay wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few thoughts: 1. Americans need to buy and hold equities. Period. When Google cuts costs or makes more money, I benefit as a shareholder (or you can hold total market indexes and the like). 2. Maybe the money will go to new hires, capabilities, expenditures, etc. ? 3. Sure, but this is certainly a good arguing point against immigration, population growth and H1-B visa programs and the like. 4. Increase taxes on the…

> 1. Americans need to buy and hold equities. Period. When Google cuts costs or makes more money, I benefit as a shareholder (or you can hold total market indexes and the like). Yes, but it is not good that your "compensation" will be coming from something that isn't tied to your job performance. Wages at least have some tenuous connection to how well you perform at work. > 2. Maybe the money will go to new hires, ca…

Why is it bad that part of your compensation comes from things that aren't tied to your performance at work?

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#419

Post by throwaway0a5e »

shuckles wrote: post #401
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Becoming so hated that people want you to fail is arguably "the result of its own failings" regardless of whether the subject is NYC then or SF now.

The urban vs. rural culture war in politics has little to do with inherent value and everything to do with resource allocation in an government system that allocates highly leveraged influence to the individuals on one side.

This isn't about urban vs rural. Thinking SV is such a joke it must be run by clowns is one of the (few, but these kinds of people have more in common than you'd think) things that inner city types and people from the panhandle of any state that has a panhandle have in common.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#420

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

grillvogel wrote: post #374
bigyikes wrote: post #13

As it happens, tomorrow I’m putting in my 30-day notice to terminate my lease and leave the Bay. (And I’m paying 2 additional months rent in fees to do so) Not being tied to the office fundamentally changes the calculus of choosing where to live. There just aren’t good reasons to live here anymore for so many of us. Even if you enjoy the area, chances are you can get a better deal by moving just a bit further away. A…

what happens if everyone goes back to the office in a year and now you're the only remote employee?

Agreed, people are way overestimating the impact of this. Most people I know can't wait for life to go back to normal.

It's easy to move away when everyone is forced to. But when you need that new promotion when office life is back and someone else there is networking...you just gonna stay back in Tulsa? Doubtful.

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